Willagee by-election: November 28

885 comments on “Willagee by-election: November 28”

1. No further info on the Inside cover story….but I hear around the traps that interested observers are getting a real laugh out of a certain Greens candidates youtube cameo’s.

   I cant recall whether you’ve already posted it or not, but after watching this choice little clip, I laughed for a good ten minutes….. I wonder how many takes it took to get the “we have a vision” line so perfect…. ahahahaha

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmvM4sVlt2M

2. [I cant recall whether you’ve already posted it or not, but after watching this choice little clip, I laughed for a good ten minutes….. I wonder how many takes it took to get the “we have a vision” line so perfect…. ahahahaha]

   I have cmmented and posted it and made comments on it’s poor production values, and she still looks like one of those private school girls who decides to rebel against her middle class lifestyle and goes bolshie.

3. Oh and the use of a Melbourne Tram is real classy – NOT.

4. I’m doing my bit to raise the vote for the ALP, and sending it to everyone I know who lives in Willagee.

5. [I’m doing my bit to raise the vote for the ALP, and sending it to everyone I know who lives in Willagee.]

   You did get the raw fawning interview I gather ?

6. Ohh, there is a new video re Public Sectlor Jobs.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyGxIAfoDg0

7. What a bullshit description – is she doing her union’s dirty work ??

   [The public sector workforce is being decimated by the Liberal government in WA. The ALP are doing little to address it. Greens Willagee by-election candidate Hsien Harper outlines how the Greens will keep public sector jobs and services safe.]

8. Here she is on Uranium Mining

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtvmOX0e34I

9. [Here she is on Uranium Mining

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtvmOX0e34I%5D

   “more Yellow Cheese, No Yellow more Yellow Cake”

   Complete with a graphic of a block of cheese.

   And they want people to take Mother Hsien as a serious candidate. Reverend Mother Adele never resorted to such stunts.

10. [“more Yellow Cheese, No Yellow more Yellow Cake”]

    Actually it’s “More Yellow Cheese, No Yellow Cake”

    Oh Puleeeeeze .

11. #803

    Luke,

    I think the key to understanding Frank’s posts is that about 95% of them are deliberately exaggerated/distorted/provocative to get a rise out of Green supporters. And every one of you keeps on taking the bait over and over again. I’m sure people here know perfectly well that there’s no such thing as a “Green Liberal Deal” but that allegation seems to send you all batty.

    Just let it go.

12. A small retraction:

    I’ve had a word with Matt, he suggests he was not distributing computers in 04 due to studies, and that if Gerry had perhaps started study in 04 and never had a discussion of the 8 ball program with staff it would be plausible he would be unaware of it.

    My apologies. I certainly however do remember it being raised with him however.

13. Oh context. The Matt i mention is Matt Menzel, the guy who ran the computer distribution ending in 04 that a previous argument centered around.

    peaceout.

14. Thanks DMX. Mat M. is pretty cool, always liked him, and the many things he did at Murdoch in his time were in the interests of others.

    To Leaving Liverpool, what are you on about with Students Without Borders? The Murdoch University chapter alone has 100 plus students as its tutors in tutoring programs alone, at least 20 students and community working on 8Ball alone, 50 students alone in off campus mentoring programs, at least a dozen in the SWB Action group alone (and this Friday night they’ve got the War on Hunger campaign, at Walters, in the evening, with at least 60 people attending), we have at least several people on each campaign, and each campaign has its own cohort of people campaigning, bringing in others from society – we have students and staff on a number of campus involved in campaigns, causes and programs, and we have secured so many students into placements with various organisations – Leaving Liverpool you are either so blighted or just misinformed – SWB has organically grown into the beautiful opportunity that it has begun – it has its own initiatives and campaigns and works very closely with other organisations to bring opportunities and campaigns directly to students. Rather than I just go on, the website is there for you to read what it does and what you can get involved in or what you can create.

    Peace to you friend.

15. Hi Everyone,

    I thought I’d offer my personal thoughts on last night’s debate at Melville SHS that the ABC senior journalist Peter Kennedy moderated. The four candidates, myself, Peter, Hsien and Henri (at first represented by Ray from his campaign because Henry was running late from another commitment) attended.

    We each had five minutes to provide an opening statement and then with three minutes fielded a question from OXFAM, the Chamber of Commerce and the Hilton Precinct Group, and then had one minute each to answer ten questions forwarded from the audience.

    More of these community meet the candidate forums would be great.

    To remain perennially honest all the candidates fared very well. The crowd was smallish, maybe 100, I’d say half of it Greens faithful, a few interested wavering Greens, some Liberal voters trying to figure out what to do with their vote, a score of Labor faithful, and the rest from the Willagee electorate.

    It was a great opportunity for me to better witness Hsien and Peter and Henri. Even though I still believe that I am the best candidate by a country mile and the one with the most to contribute through Parliament in all honesty my full on impatient change the world attitude would have seeped through in my opening statement and first two questions, and I may have sounded though knowledgeable however intolerable of any ‘slowness to act’ on the part of others. During the opening statements, though the other candidates did not argue what would make them great contributors to Parliament I did find Peter Tinley the most personable and he has an ability to connect with people, he is patient and courteous. He talked about his life and for many to know about one is important.

    My own frustration and admittedly my anger, though I have forgiven them, at the several deceitful Greens and the Greens MP who treacherously misled and deceived me and then set me up at the Greens pre-selection (on the premise of undisclosed rumours about my outspokenness) was clear during my first few answers. I haven’t come away from the meet the candidates forum believing I am not the best candidate, this I am, I am the most knowledgeable and the toughest, however I did witness Hsien in a different light, and Peter. Hsien was much better than her effort against me at our own Greens pre-selection. Though Hsien and Peter often read from papers and had prepared, and I do not agree that they demonstrated the solutions and how to go about them, their presence and connectedness with people was great. Hsien exuded a strong presence and can stand her ground and once immersed in literature will do very well. Both Hsien and Peter are capable of Parliament and will be better than many who are already there. Of course, I am the best of the lot, however I think I learned from both of them that I shouldn’t go as hard, in public forums, as I do so often and that I need to carry everyone else with me, and by so doing that we can educate each other over the line.

    If I walked away from the forum with anything it was with a greater liking of Hsien, Peter and Henry as people, and a respect for their well-meaning, and a remembering of the fact that we are all just people, good people.

    Kindly, Gerry

    (Written, Authorised by Gerry Georgatos, Independent Candidate for Willagee, 9 Arion Avenue, Harrisdale, 6112)

16. [#803

    Luke,

    I think the key to understanding Frank’s posts is that about 95% of them are deliberately exaggerated/distorted/provocative to get a rise out of Green supporters. And every one of you keeps on taking the bait over and over again. I’m sure people here know perfectly well that there’s no such thing as a “Green Liberal Deal” but that allegation seems to send you all batty.

    Just let it go.]

    Just like 100% of the “Greens” posts or have I exposed yet another client of Windscreens O’Brien ?

    Talk about thin skins.

17. Gerry,

    Had a look at SWB website. I can’t see anything that resembles real action or evidence of real people involved. But I’m willing to take your word for it.

    Have you ever stopped to think that perhaps “outspoken” often equates to bullying and threatening. Maybe the Greens did?

18. “Just like 100% of the “Greens” posts or have I exposed yet another client of Windscreens O’Brien ?”

    Haha; is that part of your deliberately exagerrated/distorted/provocative 95% baby Frank? Boo hoo

    No seriously, you’re alright.

19. #832

    Calm down, Frank. I personally don’t care who you stir up.

    Just calling it how I sees it.

20. Hello Leaving Liverpool,

    To be ‘outspoken’ is self defining – it is about speaking up, and to resist the threats of bullying, threats, the threatening, censure and other penalties. If one is merely outspoken that is all they are. If one is threatening, then one is intimidating and this can only be leveraged from a vantage, not from lesser or equal footing.

    Whistle-blower laws in this state are weak and we do not yet have the right conditions to protect whistle-blowers even though Jim McGinty tried with some whistle-blower legislature in 2003. However we still live in the great West Australia conservative silence, and the powerful are well connected and quite abusive and intimidating.

    ‘Bullying is the “repeated oppression, psychological or physical, of a less powerful person by a more powerful person”. What is happening is invariably seen by the victim as hard to bear as well as being unjust.’ (David Farrington, 1993) Those I have been outspoken about are generally people who would be argued as the ‘more powerful’.

    I have been the victim, for a long period of time, to the more powerful persons I criticise and speak out about and about their practices however I have resisted by being outspoken, though it has hurt me emotionally and psychologically and physically, their bullying, their intimidation, their threats, their cowardly legal threats, and the cowardly coalescing of individuals to fabricate stances against me in such form than they are no more than bullying and intimidation and outrageous threats. Therefore I have rubbed up the authority types and the powerful persons who I may have criticised for circumventing protocols, deceiving others, for rights issues, on behalf of justice, on behalf of the expediency to social change agency, on behalf of propriety – however whether it is government, public and private institutions and corporations in terms of the more powerful I have been outspoken about, let us remember that they are the powerful and therefore it is they who can bully and threaten, not I. I can only be merely outspoken.

    Those who are vulnerable I assist and work closely with. My detractors about my outspokenness are only those who choose to take my criticisms personally regarding the rights issues and proprieties I challenge them on behalf of all us. I am no more outspoken than Bob Brown when argues with the military about the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, or when criticizes CEOs for their remuneration and payouts, or when attacks the Prime Minister on policy issues – the more powerful are the military, the corporations and CEOs and the Prime Minister in these instances, not Bob Brown. I am very rarely the more powerful individual, rather I am the outspoken. Some may have issue with my criticisms of circumvention of proprieties, remuneration issues, rights issues, impropriety, my advocacy on behalf of the vulnerable – well how dare I?

    In terms of the Greens WA I would argue that the parliamentarians who represent them are more powerful than I. I would argue what the Greens MP in the Willagee pre-selection did was an abuse of her position and the privileges that go with it, and I would argue that though I have exposed her at this time and though I have criticised the party room at this time, that they are nevertheless the more powerful, and only they can bully or oppress through the opportunity of their power base, and coalesce either behind silence, spin or threats.

    Does this help?

    Regards, Gerry

    PS… LL, if the Greens MP had any concerns about grievances towards my ‘outspokenness’ she should have spoken to me about them prior to any Machiavellian manifest with the pre-selection, advised me of them, considered a process to investigate any concerns, done the human rights courtesy, and sought the truth in everyones interests. No-one can ever say that I don’t let people know the truth, or what I think, whether it be through advisement or criticism. I am not duplicitous or a behind the scenes puppeteer. Dishonesty is foundation-less.

    (Written and Authorised by Gerry Georgatos, Independent Candidate for Willagee, 9 Arion Avenue, Harrisdale, 6112)

21. Gerry,

    Doesn’t help. There is considerable literature on ‘upward bullying’ that you should read.

    When you refuse to accept criticism and continually shout down opposition (regardless of where they are in the heirarchy) then that sounds and awful lot like bullying. I wonder whether any of the ex-Guildies ever felt bullied?

    The difference between you and Bob Brown is statesmanship. Bob used his position when he held the balance of power to put his views and gain significant benefits for Tasmania and the Greens. You use your position to gain benefits for Gerry.

    The cynic in me wonders whether you pushed for indigenous content at Murdoch (something it seems to me they were already doing) for the benefit of indigenous peoples or because you were writing a thesis for your masters – “Advocating Compulsory Indigenous content in Tertiary Education” (at least that’s what your preselection bio said).

    Gerry, I’ve got nothing against you running in this by-election. It’s just the the Gerry I’ve seen is very different to the one you want to portray. And it seems that a few others on this forum (whether they’re talking shit or not) have seen that “outspoken” Gerry as well.

22. Thanks Leaving Liverpool. Look, I believe you don’t have anything against me. You describe those that have a perception of me as having drawn that conclusion independently however they are friends of those that do have a different view of me. Now, some of these people don’t have the same view of me that they once had however those that had their views from their initial position even if in someway mitigated by them would continue with that view. I don’t know, I know I am a decent chap and fair minded however I can’t spend my life trying to defend myself to everyone or qualify everything I wish others to see in me. I know most people and I are pretty cool with each other.

    In terms of your conclusions of why I do things well I can’t argue with every conclusion everyone has, I have to leave posterity to its own retrospect.

    I am swarthy, and as a kid I was often called a ‘black bastard’ or ‘Aboriginal’ and always wondered about a people I had never met. I’m 47, so my form and content is from a different generation. When I learned about the real history and real condition of these people I was hurt by their hurt. It paled the racism that I grew up within and which had cut to the bone with me during my childhood.

    My partner first suggested compulsory indigenous content as a way forward, and she suggested this during early 2000 after having studied an indigenous studies unit. She’s a former union organiser and current academic and a brilliant social thinker, and I respect what she has to say. I have lobbied for this commonsense as a way forward in our identity formations and equitable social inclusion for 9 years.

    I captured it within my second Masters thesis only because I wanted to document it for public record and advocacy purposes. The thesis came 8 years after I started lobbying for it, and the idea for the thesis didn’t come till late 2007, well after I had tabled the report to the university for its consideration. There’s so many things one can write a thesis on, gain a Masters without recourse to the investment of time in a practical issue. I have two Masters, no-one cares if you have 5 or 15 when you have one, it was merely an opportunity to publish a record of it and I did it in a practical way that academics found surprising so I wouldn’t have it made difficult to understand with academic theory rather than applicability.

    I know I rub some people up the wrong way, unfortunately for some that’s maybe who I am, and how I am perceived is an issue for some, however LL I have to be honest with you and I am genuinely proud of my record in achieving things because of the way I go about things – I believe in the sprint rather than a marathon to an outcome and as such I don’t always carry everyone with me. I know that some get stepped on along the way, and I hurt for them and myself that this happens however it’s a call I’ve made at times. I am trying to improve where I can, however I way things. I don’t think I’ve ever seriously unfairly hurt anyone.

    In terms of comments on the issue of ‘bullying’ I am very well versed on it all, and I am a General Manager who understands the concepts of bullying, workplace bullying, grievance procedures, remedy, etc., however you are off kilter in terms of presuming being outspoken in the public domain, or through various mechanisms is any way linked to bullying. I find it extraordinarily rich when the powerful try to name-call the critic as a bully or as some form of harassment, and really it’s the bullies calling the critic a ‘bully’, it’s nonsensical. I despise bullying in its all forms, however outspokenness should never be distorted into bullying, as bona fide freedom of speech is endangered, and hence real bullying supersedes – in terms of what people can say in the public domain, in terms of freedom of speech, this is checked by laws that prohibit vilification, hate-incitement, libel in terms of what is not fair comment or cannot be adequately substantiated…

    I work hard in trying to ensure freedom of speech and in the elimination of all forms of real bullying.

    Anyway LL, no worries, cheers, Gerry

    (Authorised/Written by Gerry Georgatos, Independent Candidate for Willagee, 9 Arion Avenue, Harrisdale, 6112)

23. More comedy gold from Mother Hsien in her best Yr 7 speech night voice 🙂

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOYU7eFBZ-4

24. Frank – as someone who is going to vote labor in the willagee election, I have to tell you the trolling is getting a bit old by now.

25. [Frank – as someone who is going to vote labor in the willagee election, I have to tell you the trolling is getting a bit old by now.]

    No, it is reminding the diehard Greens how foolish their candidate looks and sounds.

26. Frank, you’d probably sound pretty dopey yourself if someone put you in front of a video camera. I know I would. (Goddamn stagefright, it’s a curse…) They’re probably working with what they have with 10% of the MP’s and 10% of the members Labor have… 10% of the budget, so it’s gonna look like something best shown on Channel 31. You get that sometimes. Tell ya what, whoever wins on Saturday, it’ll be someone a lot less comfortable in front of a camera than the previous member. Remember his job before he was a pollie? 😉

    By the way, my optimistic predictions: the Greens will win the Hilton booth with a margin ~5%, and one or two of the Hami Hill booths too by smaller margins. Labor will pwn hard in most others, and I’ll be interested to see what happens with whatever booth it is up near Garden City that usually goes to the Liberals. No doubt some switched-on Green folk will be too, playing compare-and-contrast with East Freo.

27. What ever happens tomorrow, the profile of The Greens has certainly been raised all across Australia,
    thanks soley one very passionate troll.

28. #838
    Gerry,

    “Look, I believe you don’t have anything against me.”

    Be careful how you say what you say Gerry. Your comment makes it look like there is something to be had “against you” it’s just that I don’t know what it is.

    So, let’s try a few YES/NO answers. Can you stick to one word answers??

    Did you ever recieve payment for your work on SWB that you describe as pro bono?

    Do you park your car in a handicapped bay near the Guild offices most days?

    Have the Guild’s financial reserves decreased every year that you have been Guild Manager?

    Did you renege on a commitment to the postgraduate student society to the tune of $10k?

    Gerry, just because you claim the high moral ground doesn’t mean you stand there.

29. marg,

    Any publicity is not necessarily good publicity…..

30. Gerry
    @613

    Have you entered an agreement with your employer to utilise Murdoch University facilities, staff, office equipment, fax machines, mobile telephony, computers, internet access technology for electoral purposes?

    Have you entered an agreement with the Murdoch University Guild or sought approval from a meeting of correctly assembled Guild members to utilise Guild facilities, staff, office equipment, fax machines, mobile telephony, computers, internet access technology for electoral purposes?

    I cite post @289.

    My work number is 9360 6288, my mobile is 0422 638 324, and I can often be found in my office, or with Students Without Borders.

    I cite post @565.

    If you would like to help please call me on 9360 6288.

    My mobile phone, 0422 638 324, fell in tap water the other week and is stuffed for now. You can try me on 0402 699 028

    I cite post @585

    To everyone, if you want to help with my campaign and get the best candidate in, a different type of politician to what we’re all used to then contact me on 9360 6288, 0402699028, 0422638324 or preferably gerry_georgatos@yahoo.com.au

    Just asking. If you have then that’s cool. I don’t think John Yovich will be so cool with the concept. But then he is really rather uptight.

    So, let’s try a few YES/NO answers. Can you stick to one word answers??

    Did you ever recieve payment for your work on SWB that you describe as pro bono?

    Do you park your car in a handicapped bay near the Guild offices most days?

    Have the Guild’s financial reserves decreased every year that you have been Guild Manager?

    Did you renege on a commitment to the postgraduate student society to the tune of $10k?

31. [Any publicity is not necessarily good publicity…..]

    True.

    I hope Frank turns his abilities to the Higgins and Bradfield by-elections.

    I would love the voters to see the different styles of the major parties.

32. The style of both major parties at all three by-elections seems to be for their candidate to keep their head down and get on with it.

    All the froth and bubble has been from the Greens (Willagee, Higgins), Indy (Willagee) and CDP (Bradfield).

33. What a contrast.

    The Greens show up, talk about the important stuff, have solutions,
    increase their vote and respect from the people of Australia.

    That’s the way to conduct a party and government.

    I wish the LIB/LAB Party could follow shch a fine example.

34. Geez, some of you are really low life! I promised someone that I wouldn’t hop on this site again while the comments are so one-sided and biased, and of a low life personal nature. Now, I know that you will ‘quote’ some of this and try and distort it into ‘hypocrisy’. I’ve tried to get on-line as often as possible in order to have a legitimate debate. I have a thick skin however there are boundaries. If the other candidates had the fortitude to get on-line this would have been great rather than do the professional silence and public relations dependence. Don’t abuse the privilege of engagement.

    Kargotich, I won’t bother with you. Yours is a silly one. I have never breached WAEC regulations, and of course I check everything.

    Leaving Liverpool I really can’t respect you. Yours is purely dirt digging and dirt manifest and it says a lot about your ‘mates’. Good luck to your little world, however I will answer your questions this last time, where appropriate, and I will hop off this site, as I’ve promised a few others, till well after the elections and though I preferably hope that you find commonsense and soul do as you unfortunately please.

    Leaving Liverpool you asked questions to the following and you preferred “YES/NO” answers like the immature lawyer you should be;

    Did you ever recieve payment for your work on SWB that you describe as pro bono? I give my own time to SWB. There were 12 months where I received a small honorarium for it, however SWB self funds itself and I raise all the funds for it. We employ a permanent part time general administrator. I have given myself to SWB for almost four years. With SWB and the Guild I have worked generally up to 80 hours per week for most of those four years. Pro bono.

    Do you park your car in a handicapped bay near the Guild offices most days? How fucking dare you ask this question when you know the university security staff book anyone in a bay they are not allowed in. Yes, I park in a blue Easy Access Bay for which I have a permit, renewed each year with the appropriate medical certificates provided to the authorising officer. My condition is not your business. I would never think to be so menial as to intrude into anyone’s privacy in such a way. How dare you?

    Have the Guild’s financial reserves decreased every year that you have been Guild Manager? NO. The Guild’s finances were shambolic prior to my arrival and it is I that managed them a RECORD surplus for them end of 2006. That can never be matched again as we are not in USU. I have left them this year in surplus. Why don’t you check the real figures of previous Guild’s before my arrival and ask where the money went in those years that delivered deficits, and no real surplus and in 2003 and 2004 they had full USU, $800K more in funds from students than we have, and even 2005 why was the surplus so small and why had we not been prepared for the very obvious VSU. They should hang their heads in shame or at least in a series of honest admissions. The Guild you have, whatever you think of it, has survived reasonably intact, where others disastrously collapsed, because of my strong and experienced financial management. Why don’t you talk to the current staff? Why don’t you talk to the long serving staff? Why don’t you check the Guild Council motions for 2006 when some of your mates were still here and see the MOTIONS they went with, and see that they were 10-0, 12-1, 13-0, 11-0, 14-0, 12-2 and tell me whether we had participatory discussions, consultations and a voting structure.

    For the record everyone in 2005 and 2006 thought the Guild was dead and buried and quoting one of them ‘a dead horse’ and that we couldn’t save – I won’t rehash the comments, however I was the only who believed, and knew, because of my experience, that it could be saved and we did.

    For the record everything goes through Council, in my time, always has. Propriety. I don’t always get what I’ve tabled up, during 2006 though there were radical changes to manage this joint and provide services to students and community the reality is I actually lost many of the Motions and we went with what got up. The Council is made of up 18 you know. The only place where I have won just about every Motion is at the University’s Academic Council, not at Guild Council. I have done my best – as PEMS, as EVP, as Guild President, and when in management as the Guild Manager – and through all appropriate processes. If some did not like what happened the issue isn’t with me it’s with the whole Council of 18 where votes from those that attended were beyond absolute majority – what do you want, your two or three mates who had their views to dictate the show or us to accept an absolute majority? Everyone had their say, and we ensured a just and robust process.

    Did you renege on a commitment to the postgraduate student society to the tune of $10k? NEVER. What a load of shit. I was the one who fought for MUPSA to be empowered with funding. Check the Minutes for who motioned for this – I. 2006, they received their funds from me. If you have an issue with the Guild President of 2007 take it up with him. I worked with MUPSA and the Guild to repair differences during 2008 and Clare, the Guild President, came through and agreed to an MOU with MUPSA. MUPSA has received their funding for last year, and so far this year. I work it out myself, without being asked, and ensure they get it paid. Who tells you this shit?

    Gerry, just because you claim the high moral ground doesn’t mean you stand there. – I live the high moral ground – end of story. Do you?

    Don’t you dare ever have the appalling gall to dictate answers from someone through a ‘yes/no’ format. Okay, Mr Perry Mason?

    Good-bye, Gerry

    (Authorised/Written by Gerry Georgatos, Independent Candidate for Willagee, 9 Arion Avenue, Harrisdale, 6112)

35. [What ever happens tomorrow, the profile of The Greens has certainly been raised all across Australia,
    thanks soley one very passionate troll.]

    Run Windscreens O’Brien.

    [Frank, you’d probably sound pretty dopey yourself if someone put you in front of a video camera. I know I would. (Goddamn stagefright, it’s a curse…) They’re probably working with what they have with 10% of the MP’s and 10% of the members Labor have… 10% of the budget, so it’s gonna look like something best shown on Channel 31. You get that sometimes. Tell ya what, whoever wins on Saturday, it’ll be someone a lot less comfortable in front of a camera than the previous member. Remember his job before he was a pollie? ;)]

    For a party who claim to be a major third first they should bite the bullet and spend, lor at least get some sort of contra deal with a PROFESSIONAL prodjctin company – I’m sure there are some Greens leaning ones and/or independent filmakers.

36. ‘What ever happens tomorrow, the profile of The Greens has certainly been raised all across Australia, thanks soley one very passionate troll.’

    Marg – I doubt that someone commenting on a blog would raise the profile of the greens all across Australia, thats a ridiculous statement.

    ‘The Greens show up, talk about the important stuff, have solutions,
    increase their vote and respect from the people of Australia.’

    I live in the electorate and I haven’t heard a peep from the greens, you cant be talking about important stuff when you have no contact with the people in the electorate.

37. [I live in the electorate and I haven’t heard a peep from the greens, you cant be talking about important stuff when you have no contact with the people in the electorate.]

    So Hsien’s assertion that she’s been getting support while doorknocking is anor untruth ?

38. She could have got it in other areas, but not mine.

39. [She could have got it in other areas, but not mine.]

    I wonder if she only targetted the suburbs where the Greens did well ? Silly strategy if you want to actually have a chance of winning – and they can’t use the excuse of no money etc, even the majors don’t splash their money on all seats equally.

40. ABC Live Coverage page is up.

    http://www.abc.net.au/elections/wa/2009/byelections/willagee_result.htm

41. I’ve been following this thread with interest since the announcement of the by-election. I’ve been personally labelled a branch stacker, office hack etc on here, without really knowing any of the people making those statements I don’t think. [And a cameo appearance by way of my Twitter feed – thanks Frank 😉 ]

    I have no doubt that the Greens have some lessons to learn from this whole process. Equally I have no doubt that we ended up with the right candidate.

    For Gerry to proclaim that the meeting that decided upon the candidate was stacked is just ludicrous, though equally, I have no real knowledge of the previous meetings or discussions.

    As far as I know there were no members of any other regional group at the pre-selection meeting. The only one in doubt was me – having recently returned to living in Freo, I was unsure of my membership status, so I informed the convenor of the meeting that I would not be taking part in any discussions or voting. I was there in a supportive capacity for Hsien, and took no part in proceedings. I declared my interest to the convenor, however I also declared my intention to work on the campaign regardless of who was pre-selected.

    The meeting was well attended, because it was a meeting of a political party group to discuss an election – this is what members take the most interest in. Far less members turn up to what can be very dry discussions about internal party matters outside of election periods.

    My principle concern for the Greens is that it seems as though a number of people were not entirely happy with the outcome of the meeting, and didn’t feel comfortable raising it at the time. The capacity for each and every member of the Greens to have input into decisions is fundamental to the Greens pillar of participatory democracy, so this should be carefully scrutinised and addressed.

    I was saddened when I saw Gerry had nominated for senate pre-selection [whilst already being the presumptive candidate for Willagee] because it indicated either an ego rampant enough to dismiss the efforts of an effective and universally well regarded sitting Senator, or an astounding lack of political judgement, or both. Had he had the patience and humility to learn more about the party and the people involved, I thought he would have made an interesting candidate in the not too distant future.

    I don’t agree that it’s about “giving the party your dues” before being a candidate, I think it’s about developing a capacity to represent the membership and policies of the party, and work alongside the existing team – which is what any party, as I’m sure Frank will attest to, rightfully asks of its candidates. [Except perhaps the federal Liberal party at the moment.]

    From his statements in his pre-selection material, at the meeting and here on PollBludger, I can only agree with StewartJ that Gerry comes across as someone seeking to be elevated into parliament purely for his own reasons. Some of those reasons may very well be ideologically similar to the party, but that’s not the same as wanting to represent the policy of the party. I think this is made clear by Gerry’s choice to preference the ALP. Gerry has indicated that he still has a high regard for the Greens, and feels aggrieved only by the actions of one person, yet he chooses to preference a party whose policies differ markedly from the policies he five weeks ago lauded and undertook to represent.

    The Greens choice of candidate was to my mind further vindicated at the candidate’s debate. Gerry was spouting furious polysyllabic bluster masquerading as answers, Tinley was very guarded and trying not to misstep, Hsien was measured and well-spoken, and Henri was amiable but ultra-conservative.

    Apologies for the long comment, my estimate for election day (of valid votes – I do think there’ll be high absenteeism and invalid):

    ALP 48%
    Greens 39%
    Independent 9%
    CDP 4%

    Anyone else going to have a guess? Frank?

42. Haha… the analysis of Hsien’s material makes me wonder how I would have looked had I gone for a Youtube strategy in 2006 for Victoria Park – the quarter-page photo of me on Queens Park station taken on a 37° day which appeared in the Canning Examiner was embarrassing enough. 😛

    This by-election throws up so many contradictions for me. Firstly, I can confirm to Leaving Liverpool and others as a Murdoch student that Gerry’s estimates of SWB activity are about correct. I have been aware for some time of what they do on campus, and I was at the dinner tonight and must say it was a great success for the cause it was promoting. Secondly, my own experience as an independent candidate in 2006 taught me a fair amount about the internal politics of the Greens, and probably discouraged me from ever joining them. Thirdly, as a long-time Labor supporter and now Labor member, I worked with Peter Tinley in 2007 for his Stirling bid and never failed to be impressed by him – I really hope he will do well tomorrow, he’ll be a fantastic addition to the Labor frontbench in my view if he does.

    My guess will be

    ALP 50%
    Greens 30%
    Independent 12%
    CDP 8%

43. Before coming on here I arrived at a guess of my own based on assessment of similar by-elections in the past, which I now see is almost identical to Andrew’s.

44. A more interesting question is what result would be considered “good” and “bad” for all parties concerned?

    800-odd posts of froth and bubble don’t really change the fact that Willagee is a safe Labor seat without a strong Green tinge.

    I’d expect a result around:

    ALP 55
    Grn 30
    Indy 10
    CDP 5

    Really, that won’t tell us anything very conclusive about Labor, the Greens, or the Liberals as a whole.

    For me, a “good” result for all parties would be
    ALP- Winng on primaries
    Green- Better than 1/3 of the vote
    Indy- Pushing 20%
    CDP- cracking double figures.

    A “bad” result would be
    ALP- Less than 45%
    Green- struggling to pass 20%
    Indy- single figures
    CDP- expectations are so low nothing would be considered “bad” for them.

45. [ I have no doubt that the Greens have some lessons to learn from this whole process. Equally I have no doubt that we ended up with the right candidate. ]

    Yeah, one of those lessons would be: be very very careful when dealing with people who’ve been involved in student politics. (Pass that sentence on to the powers that be, all you official Greens members, and tell ’em to READ IT.) It’s one of thooose areas… the smaller the stakes, the more bitter the arguments and the more screwed up the people. In their defence, Green folk not from Murdoch uni couldn’t have known everything that was about to happen (hell, half of it still hasn’t come out!), but they should’ve done their due dilligence on Gerry. If they had’ve just asked a few people about him beforehand (ie: the guild folk who preceded him), none of this mess would’ve happened. Speaking as someone who ain’t a party member but may join the Greens one of these days, that’s my advice for becoming a major party: beware of the wingnuts and be careful who you endorse. If the party is taken seriously, then so will their mistakes. Having anything to do with a snake like Gerry was a bad mistake, which I do hope the party learns from… I want to see them do well in the future.

46. Andrew: good to see you still kicking around on PB, despite the scary trolls. I remember your efforts in 2006 in Vic Park, and I’d’ve probably voted for you had I lived there. (By a meaningless but funny little irony, I lived in Coolbellup back then – what electorate but Willagee.) Try and roll the member for Cannington next election, if you’re still around the area… point to your record running as a no-name independent, and point to his record running the last election campaign… you’d have an OK chance.

    MDM, my picks would be: if Labor don’t win on the primary vote, it’s goodnight to Eric Ripper. For the CDP, comparing with the Fremantle by-election, they’re not likely to get heaps – 10% would be over the moon territory for them. As for Gerry, DMX keeps telling me not to underestimate him. I do see his point, but I still think he’ll crash and burn in the wider ecosystem of Willagee as opposed to Murdoch guild, where a few hundred people vote. The Yay For SuperGerry cult (which mysteriously disappeared a third of the way through this thread… funny that) is about to have a rude lesson in reality. That all leaves about 30% for the Greens… I’d be surprised if they don’t get at least that.

    My numbers prediction remains 55-35-5-5, Labor by 10% 2pp, and Greens winning the Hilton booth. (Maybe with Hilton’s new trot Freo councillor sitting on the booth for them? Greens and Socialist Archipelago seemed pretty friendly last by-election.) The Greens aren’t gonna win, but can still learn a couple of decent lessons from this. Might serve them well in in a hypothetical future Belmont by-election.

47. Andrew Owen has discredited Leavingliverpool. SWB is massive.

    SNIP: Overheated and possibly defamatory comments deleted – The Management. Bird you’re a joke methinks. Everyone at the Guild loves Gerry and former guildies think the world of him and that’s why they voted out your several mates that made the guild their little money spinning club which gerry and company fixed.

    You’re a snake bird, a real snake in the grass.

    The Greens are phonies. Xamon has apologised to Gerry but the others haven’t and Maclaren is a snake who does this shit to everyone, Scott, Walker (a founder) and now Georgatos. I can tell you the Greens have split over this and good riddance to the party room freaks who lie their way into power. Gerry was the best to ever happen to the Greens, he could have taken them further, another Bob Brown, but the fact he has exposed them and gone harder on them than Walker who described Maclaren as the Brian Burke of the Greens is credit to Gerry’s stamina. He is a great man and he doesn’t hide like them.

    At the forum, I was there, Gerry was the most knowledgeable one but he was tired of the one person campaigning and obviously still angry that the best candidate was stitched by a corrupt process that the snake Maclaren slithered. Maclaren should be sacked but she’ll go on pretending to care about people.

    Regarding Paris’ comments well paris-site you’ve just admitted to everyone you are a branch stacker and you went there for Hsien only. You rubbish Gerry who you once found interesting for the Greens and a potential politician because Hsien is your mate and your precious party come first. Except for Gerry the candidates were weak in substance at the forum, Gerry moved from angry and to measured but everything he said had substance which proves he is the best candidate, he has more knowledge than the rest. gerry is too hard on himself and well probably needs a few weeks away from the bullshit of this campaign and the green’s greed.

    Paris, your precious Siewert is not such a great senator and she should have been challenged, i’ve heard how you all just clap each other and the clique is never performance managed, and Siewert is now a careeist, after a soon to be completed 6 year senate term to be followed by a hand delivered second six year term. Ha, ha, and no scrutiny of her performance.

    Paris, you know that Hsien isn’t a real politician and you know gerry was ****ed (See article 2 of comment moderation guidelines – The Management over. However I hope Gerry goes federal and gets in, I am so sorry for the people of Willagee and the state of Western Australia.

    SNIP: Overheated comments deleted. Play nice, please – The Management.

    Ta, ta, Frank A.

48. “It’s one of thooose areas… the smaller the stakes, the more bitter the arguments and the more screwed up the people.”

    Could apply to the by-election as a whole. So much mutual hatred and abuse over pre-selection for a seat that they won’t win anyway….

49. Greens Twitter feed reports “low voter turnout particularly across the southern part of the electorate”, which though not entirely surprising is not what Labor would want. I’m out of town unfortunately, otherwise I’d be casing the joint myself.

50. [Greens Twitter feed reports “low voter turnout particularly across the southern part of the electorate”, which though not entirely surprising is not what Labor would want. I’m out of town unfortunately, otherwise I’d be casing the joint myself]

    I would take those early figures with a grain of salt as most people in the morning have shopping, taking kids to sport dance lessons etc.

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