In addition to new posts on Saturday’s Tasmanian election and state polling numbers for Queensland, there is the following:
• Gisele Kapterian, the Liberal candidate who fell 26 votes short against independent Nicolette Boele in Bradfield, has announced she will launch a Court of Disputed Returns appeal against the result. The accompanying media statement indicates that Kapterian will seek revisions to formality rulings for ballot papers that were reserved for the adjudication of the returning officer, as was done after the 2007 election by Labor’s Rob Mitchell following his 12-vote defeat at the hands of Liberal member Fran Bailey in McEwen. On that occasion, the court re-examined 643 ballot papers and admitted 76 votes for Bailey and 66 for Mitchell that had originally been deemed informal, while excluding seven votes for Mitchell and two for Bailey, with the effect that Bailey’s winning margin in fact increased to 27. The court’s determinations were used as the basis for revised AEC guidelines on formality, which should in theory have meant future court rulings producing fewer changes. Should the court make enough revisions in Kapterian’s favour, it could either declare her the winner (though it seems few expect this) or void the result and send the voters of Bradfield back to the polls. Climate 200 has been spruiking polling suggesting a clearer win for Boele should that transpire.
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• DemosAU has published results on federal and state voting intention in Queensland, the latter of which are covered in an earlier post. The federal results have Labor leading 53-47, compared with an election result of 50.6-49.4 in favour of the Coalition. The primary votes are Labor 35% (31.0% at the election), Coalition 31% (34.9%), Greens 12% (11.8%) and One Nation 13% (7.8%). The poll was conducted July 4 to 9 from a sample of 1027.
• The Australia Institute has a YouGov poll finding 49% saying the AUKUS agreement makes Australia more safe and 20% less so, but that 66% favour a parliamentary inquiry into the matter (it was first put to respondent that “reviews” had been announced by the US and UK, with only 12% opposed. The poll was conducted June 27 to July 3 from a sample of 1522.
Pegasussays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 12:57 pm
GA
“The election of former journalist and anti-salmon campaigner Peter George to the Tasmanian parliament has been hailed as a reminder that independents are “a force to be reckoned with” by key backer Climate 200.
::::
His campaign was the first backed by the fundraising body Climate 200 to target Franklin, a seat held by a federal Labor minister. He was considered only an outside chance to win.”
中华人民共和国
Rah-Rah
Player One says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 10:04 am
If Australia is slow when it comes to implementing a national EV charging network, WA is going backwards. They had one and are now busily dismantling it …
….lies, damned lies from the local lie-maker. The net work is not closing. It is not being dismantled. Installation of charging points is not retreating. The ownership and operation of charging points is changing. The network is growing. The RAC – a motorists’ insurer and roadside assistance not-for-profit – having pioneered a charging network when there were almost no EVs on the road, are withdrawing now that EV use has lifted. The network will be owned and operated by others.
P1 proves once again they are a producer and publisher of lies. Vile lies. The lies retailed by a perennial urger and hate-mailer.
”
Arkysays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 12:30 pm
I wish I believed that most of the people now saying Trump has lost their support weren’t going to still end up supporting Trump’s policies and voting for the MAGA candidates (assuming elections continue) over the next 4 years….
”
Arky
Couple of points
1. Now, none of these people are about to develop empathy or fight for a just and caring society. They’re still dangerous conspiracy theorists. But they’ve turned on Trump because they believe he’s now complicit in the Epstein cover-up.
2. Trump’s capacity was to bring these kind of people out of their rabbit holes/ the rocks under which they were hiding. A lot of them were non-voters or irregular voters.
3. But as a warning, a CNN poll this said that 88% Republican voters still support Trump.
4. If USA conducts next year’s mid-term elections or elections after that and that too without rigging the voting system, then these kind of voters may sit out.
The salmon industry is environmentally destructive. There’s no doubt about that. For mine, I have given up buying Australian-sourced salmon products.
Hacksays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 1:09 pm
Player One says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 10:04 am
If Australia is slow when it comes to implementing a national EV charging network, WA is going backwards. They had one and are now busily dismantling it …
….lies, damned lies from the local lie-maker.
——————————————————
South coast of NSW, not local where WA is concerned. Doubt knows much at all about WA, as their erroneous post is testimony to.
Omar Comin’:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 12:05 pm
Not everything prima facie is what it appears. BB has posted on this site for many years & has only recently returned. As I’ve suggested previously, it pays to know the politics of this site before taking a concrete stance. Cat is also a long-term poster, but has the habit of provocatively posting, but when challenged, usually responds with words to the effect that, ” I’m just a mere woman; stop picking on me”. As for entropy, well, I refuse to be cruel.
It is interesting that there has, clearly, been a strategic rethink about how to use elections to pursue the goals of the “God-fearing, conservative” people.
Previously we had the vehicles like the Family First party, and Fred Nile’s party of course.
That was the legitimate democratic strategy: create parties that were overt in what they were trying to achieve, and campaign to win votes, and while I disagreed with their polices almost entirely I respected that they were being upfront with voters about who they were and what they were trying to achieve. And they had some electoral success (admittedly with the help of Group Ticket Voting, which will not be missed).
However, these groups clearly didn’t achieve the popular support they needed, and felt they deserved, to be effective forces in legislatures, so they’ve changed tack. No longer are they doing the honest thing and being upfront about the parties they control and taking their platforms directly to the people, now it’s about hollowing out an existing successful party to hide what’s going on and cloak their (clearly not overly favoured) positions in the garb of an existing mainstream party. It’s partly following the successful takeover of the Republicans in the US of course, but the US is different anyway and the US’s broken party system makes the effective barrier to entry to 3rd parties prohibitive in a way that our system does not.
I suspect without the structural rigidities, and cultural weirdness, of the US’ system that these religious ‘cuckoos’ won’t be long-term successful in the same endeavour here because the electability of 3rd parties/independents in our system is clearly much greater, and if they transform the conservative parties here into obviously just being religious zealots I think they will simply destroy the L/NPs as they are, which will be replaced by something new in the natural course of events.
The non-religious non-crazy parts of the L/NP that remain should be alert and alarmed as to what is going on, though, and work that bit harder to keep their ‘broad church’, for if they don’t it will all come crashing down around them.
Arky writes:
Herewith some direct quotes from the discussion yesterday:
I just can’t cope with those who seek to stoutly defend the indefensible using the law as their sword and shield.
That’s a fairly clear rejection of our legal system, isn’t it? Whose opinion decides what is and isn’t indefensible? Show me how vigilantism is the answer to any of society’s problems (assuming you’re not out to destroy that society).
I’d prefer to be on the side of the young men who were abused and who couldn’t afford to take their side of the case to the High Court.
… which ignores the obvious points that
(a) their side obviously DID make it to the High Court, and
(b) that whether they were abused in the first place needs to be properly established, preferably based on facts rather than animosity or gut feeling.
I couldn’t give a flying fig about the High Court’s legal technicality assessment… Give me the opinion of a jury of his peers any day.
Is “I don’t give a flying fig” close enough to “not caring about” our laws and legal system?
Speaking of the jury, it was found to have been incapable of reaching the conclusion it had reached, so much so that no amount of tweaking or polishing the evidence presented to it could have ever resulted in a guilty verdict.
This analysis was delivered by a unanimous 7-0 High Court decision. We’re not talking about quibbling at the margins, obscure legal curiosities, “High Court legal technality assessments”, or bare majorities along ideological lines here. You can’t get a more comprehensive, conclusive rebuttal of a jury’s decision than 7-0 in the highest court of the land.
If you don’t like our system of checks and balances, and reckon your opinion is more reliable, join a lynch mob.
Bushfire Billsays:
Speaking of the jury, it was found to have been incapable of reaching the conclusion it had reached, so much so that no amount of tweaking or polishing the evidence presented to it could have ever resulted in a guilty verdict.
________________________
How many other people have languished in prison on similar or less evidence?
nathsays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 1:44 pm
Bushfire Billsays:
Speaking of the jury, it was found to have been incapable of reaching the conclusion it had reached, so much so that no amount of tweaking or polishing the evidence presented to it could have ever resulted in a guilty verdict.
________________________
How many other people have languished in prison on similar or less evidence?
———————————————————-
The only error seems to be that a defence witnesses 100% recall of an event 20 years ago wasn’t questioned by the prosecution. Which meant the jury had to accept it as fact. Not that the jury would have known that and they obviously didn’t accept it as fact. It should have been a mistrial and a new trial occurs where the prosecution disputes the witness with 100% 20 year recall next time.
I gather the “Total Recall” witness was devout Roman Catholic and strong Pell supporter too. So not an unbias witness by any means.
Mavis: “also a long-term poster, but has the habit of provocatively posting”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Arky doesn’t want to engage with me any more, and I can see why. Fancy a lawyer agreeing that the High Court got it wrong in Pell’s appeal – 7 to zero. I do recall that a swimming instructor said that Pell exposed himself to young men, suggesting this was admissible evidence, if that’s what you were implying. Anyway, enough of Pell. He was a dirty old man who hasn’t gone to Heaven?
Entropy
I didn’t follow the trial closely at the time. What was the event twenty years previously that supported the defence case?
Bystandersays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 1:59 pm
Entropy
I didn’t follow the trial closely at the time. What was the event twenty years previously that supported the defence case?
———————————————————-
I gather it was a church official who gave a timeline of where Pell was at all times during the services. A timeline which gave far to short of time alone with the altar boys for what was described to have happened occurring without it being observed by others.
No that’s just C@tmomma implying that you argue in bad faith. And I’m beginning to agree. As if arguing that Pell got access to special justice that others won’t constitutes a rejection of our legal system. Nonsense. Einsatzgrüppen! What a ridiculous hill to die on.
Pi:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 1:54 pm
Mavis: “also a long-term poster, but has the habit of provocatively posting”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Noted. I guess we are all subject to the same proclivities, though the appellate system has done us well, in my strong view.
Entropy says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 1:13 pm
E, you are far too generous to the liar. They are not merely in error. They fabricate disinformation. They are in business for the single purpose of publishing falsehoods. They are at least semi-professionally mendacious.
Thanks Entropy.
Bystandersays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 2:14 pm
Thanks Entropy.
—————————————————-
So basically it was defence witness saying they went in there fleetingly and were observable when in there. While prosecution witness saying they were in there for long enough alone with him for the alleged crime to happen. Obviously the prosecution witness got heavily cross examined on his recall of the event. Yet it seems the defence witness did not for some unexplained reason.
Hack, great to see you comrade. Land a few blows for me!
Just for Mavis
Free to air ratings in Australia
G1 Wallabies vs Lions (A series regarded by Suaalii as bigger than Origin)- 772,000
G1 Women’s SOO – 992,000
G1 Men’s SOO – 3.755m
Oakeshott Countrysays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 2:26 pm
Just for Mavis
Free to air ratings in Australia
G1 Wallabies vs Lions (A series regarded by Suaalii as bigger than Origin)- 772,000
G1 Women’s SOO – 992,000
G1 Men’s SOO – 3.755m
————————————————————
NRL Grand Final 2024: 3.42 million (Channel 9)
AFL Grand Final 2024: 4.06 million (Channel 7)
Imagine being a lawyer and disagreeing with “all 7 HC justices”
What a crushing appeal to authority.
My brief dalliance with law studies came to an end after being marked down for remarking on how Mason came to concur with imcompatible judgements from Barwick and Murphy in the case we were writing about. Both judgements came to same final decision, but Barwick’s swung on the statute of Westminster, which Murphy didn’t recognise as Australian law
Jackol @ #1702 Sunday, July 20th, 2025 – 1:23 pm
What Jackol said.
Re Antic’s antics – they are all cynical manipulative bullshit. His father was a respiratory specialist. Antic Jr knows that his COVID stance is bullshit, but is quite prepared to use it for power. He is scum.
Omar Comin’ says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 2:25 pm
Hack, great to see you comrade. Land a few blows for me!
Great to see you too, amigo. I’m not here for long….sad to say. I have some serious writing to do too.
Maintain the struggle!
Entropy
I think you may have left out the NZ and PNG numbers for both games.
Hack @ #1725 Sunday, July 20th, 2025 – 2:39 pm
✊
Latter day Groupers have succeeded with the Liberals where their predecessors failed with Labor. The Liberals are a front for a counter-reformist conspiracy. Clerically-inspired reactionaries have infiltrated and captured the political organ of the bourgeoisie. Very fitting.
Hack @ #1702 Sunday, July 20th, 2025 – 1:09 pm
And you apparently didn’t read the article …
I have a friend who did his Master’s thesis on T.S. Eliot. He’s a lovely guy, but has let himself go of late, resembling an old hobo, in consequence of which, he’s having a hard time with the medical profession. Never one not call a spade a spade, I spoke to him today about his appearance, suggesting he get new clobber, tidy himself up, and regularly shave. I wasn’t sure of his response. Anyway, he agreed, with the result that we’re going to Target tomorrow to get him fitted out. That’s what you get for being sharing, caring & being honest.
Oakeshott Country says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 2:43 pm
Entropy
I think you may have left out the NZ and PNG numbers for both games.
中华人民共和国
I was in Moresby about 20 years ago when an Origin match was played – from memory in Brisbane. They take their Origin very very seriously. Whilst our accommodation was behind security already – extra measures were taken on Origin night to keep us safe.
The City virtually closes before each game and loyalties seem evenly divided (though it must be noted that in 1883, the Government of Queensland annexed Papua for the British Empire)
The next morning we found out about several unfortunate incidents because NSW lost (again).
Omar writes,
You’re the one invoking Godwin’s law Omar, not me.
Nevertheless, Godwin’s Law is worth discussing, if only because it gets in its own way so often, being usually misunderstood as a rule against using certain language. It is worth noting that Mr Godwin himself wasn’t proscribing behaviour; he was merely observing it.
If Fascism ever returns, as it has in some countries, and is in the process of returning in others, it will be in great part because in certain cliché ridden minds think it’s clever to invoke Godwin’s Law as a way of shutting down discussion. In trying to avoid using the words, thoughts or concepts of Hitler, Fascism etc. to describe a current situation, political leader, or social tendency – from simple abandonment of a rational judicial system to one based on personal and public opinion, to organized mass detention and murder – we risk getting the real thing while we’re too busy scoring debating points.
On this board in the last week we’ve seen arguments literally in favour of abadoning our legal system in favour of opinionated justice. But let’s not consider whether that’s a fascist tendency. There are too many public bar level debating points to be made.
Trump and his Project 2025 have been rapidly introducing fascism as the bedrock of the new American polity. But let’s waste time arguing over whether Musk’s “Roman” salute was Nazi or not. Meanwhile Grok self-describes as “Mecha-Hitler”.
We have also seen it alleged that use of the word “Holocaust” is in itself a denial of the Holocaust. Apparently this is because, even though the word itself goes back hundreds of years (and its roots, thousands), Israel, set up to provide Jews a homeland post-WW2, claims proprietorship of it. Thus no-one outside Israel can accuse Israel of fascism or foisting a Holocaust upon Gaza, because “fascism” and “Holocaust” can only be done to Jews, not by them, or their ethnoreligious state. While we dissolve in a quagmire of guilt over a matter of etymology and whether we are perhaps breaking Godwin’s Law, Gaza is razed, with its people and its future indiscriminantly murdered in the tens of thousands by functional fascists. Ask the victims whether they care whethet the “f” is upper or lower case.
Godwin’s Law, and those who unthinkingly invoke it, have a lot to explain.
Godwin himself thought, at least around 1990, that invoking Naziism or Hitler (thus breaking Godwin’s Law) cheapened the Jewish Holocaust (or Shoah), on the basis that there was never anything worse than, or even as bad as Naziism. Of course 1990 was a long time before the Gaza massacres of 2024-25. His more up to date opinion (December 2023) that it’s valid to invoke Naziism as regards MAGA and Trump is therefore interesting. Trump today, Netanyahu tomorrow?
If the jackoot fits, wear it.
So many assumptions about me, Bushfire Bill. All of them wrong.
Entropysays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 10:34 am
C@tmommasays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 9:04 am
Couldn’t help yourself, could you, Mavis? Sad.
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Mavis seems to be enjoying riling people up. I think Arky’s decision to disengage is the right one. As it appears Mavis derives pleasure from the conflicts he invokes.
Very true. It’s why I disengaged this morning. Choosing instead to spend the day in the warm winter sun. 🙂
While I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post Bushfire Bill, do not trifle with me.
Entropy:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 2:23 pm
Please stick with your discipline. You’re becoming more indisplined than Cat, and that takes heaps.
UpNorth
The experiment of an NRL team in PNG looks like it will be a wild ride.
My son was working in Lae during the last election- he is still quite traumatised. The killings were not related to discussions on the finer points of policy but, rather, the election period was seen as an excuse for payback for numerous previous slights.
Omar,
The invoking of Godwin’s Law lies in your accusing me of breaking it.
Get a better dictionary, one for example doesn’t define “invoke” as a synonym of “evoke”.
And isn’t there some other law that says the first person to use a dictionary (crappy or not) loses the argument. If so, I invoke that law!
Oakeshott Countrysays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:16 pm
UpNorth
The experiment of an NRL team in PNG looks like it will be a wild ride.
____________________________
Should see the Pacific Islander domination of NRL to continue unabated.
Omar Comin’:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:06 pm
Why not? Are you a guru? You’ve got a lot to learn, dear.
Bushfire Bill yeah sure I’ll go get a dictionary that doesn’t make your criticism look stupid, no worries. Why don’t you go back and read the post of mine that you were responding to, and understand that with your post, the probability that someone in this conversation would make a comparison to nazis had reached one, invoking Godwin’s law. Sorry if I’m broadening your vocabulary here buddy.
There’s a few egos on display here today.
Oakeshott Country says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:16 pm
UpNorth
The experiment of an NRL team in PNG looks like it will be a wild ride.
My son was working in Lae during the last election- he is still quite traumatised. The killings were not related to discussions on the finer points of policy but, rather, the election period was seen as an excuse for payback for numerous previous slights.
中华人民共和国
Yes its an “interesting” place. Port Moresby is Townsville’s oldest Sister City (1983) and the Townsville Hospital serves as a base for many PNG residents who can’t get local treatment.
But it’s not for the feint of heart. I’m a “Wontok” of the lowland village of my friend near Morseby.
In Tok Pisin, wantok means “one talk” – meaning the language of the tribe or clan that a person belongs to. The Wantok system and Wantokism is the traditional welfare system that evolved around that tribe.
So I have some protection but even with that at 5pm unless we are well out fishing I am at my hotel for safety reasons.
Upnorthsays:
But it’s not for the feint of heart. I’m a “Wontok”
_____________
I think its pronounced ‘wanker’. 🙂
nath says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:30 pm
Oakeshott Countrysays:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:16 pm
UpNorth
The experiment of an NRL team in PNG looks like it will be a wild ride.
____________________________
Should see the Pacific Islander domination of NRL to continue unabated.
中华人民共和国
They are very fine footballers Nath without a doubt. Just goes to show the International outreach of Rugby League compared say to the Southern Code.
As I noted yesterday I’m looking at tickets for the Kangaroo Tour of England for a three Test Ashes tour later this year. If you’re free you should come along.
As parliament is going to return this week, I do wonder if there will be Newspoll tonight? Often that is when the first one comes out.
Upnorthsays:
They are very fine footballers Nath without a doubt. Just goes to show the International outreach of Rugby League compared say to the Southern Code.
_____________________________
Yeah I’m not jealous about that. The addition of PNG could lead to more NRL related atrocities of which there has been an unfortunate decline in lately.
Player One @ #1729 Sunday, July 20th, 2025 – 2:18 pm
Neither did you, the EV stations that will be closed were part of Australia’s first EV highway which was started while there were few EVs on the road operated by the RAC and mostly funded by the state Govt. These aren’t the only stations in the state, others have and are being built by various companies. There will not be less stations in the state in the future.
nath says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:40 pm
Upnorthsays:
But it’s not for the feint of heart. I’m a “Wontok”
_____________
I think its pronounced ‘wanker’.
中华人民共和国
No I’m pretty sure my Pidgin is correct in that respect – maybe you’ve had interactions with Highlanders who still burn witches and look suspiciously on lowlanders?
B. S. Fairman says:
Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:44 pm
As parliament is going to return this week, I do wonder if there will be Newspoll tonight? Often that is when the first one comes out.
中华人民共和国
It’s sorely needed cobber. PB becomes a cesspit unless Bludgers get to digest new data.