The News Corp Sunday papers yesterday carried a Freshwater Strategy poll showing 50-50 on two-party preferred, from primary votes of Labor 31%, Coalition 39%, Greens 14% and others 15%. This is very similar to results the same pollster produced for the Financial Review last month, differing only in that the Greens were on 13% and others 16%. The poll was conducted last Wednesday and Thursday from a sample of 1007.
News Corp’s coverage was incomplete with respect to voting intention and focused on attitudinal findings: that 81% said the government was not doing enough about the cost of living, 51% said the country was headed in the wrong direction, 51% expected “green measures” would increase power costs, and that while 52% said they would vote yes to a republic, 55% did not think a referendum should be held “now”. The utility of these numbers is limited by the News Corp report’s lack of detail on contrary and uncommitted responses, on which I can shed no further light.
In other news, Labor and Liberal have both confirmed their candidates for the Dunkley by-election, expected to be held late February at the soonest. Labor’s candidate is Jodie Belyea, manager of a foundation that provides tertiary scholarships for disadvantaged women, who was endorsed by the party’s national executive with backing from the Socialist Left faction. For the Liberals, Frankston mayor Nathan Conroy was chosen yesterday from a ballot of local party members with a reported 89 votes, against 40 for former state MP Donna Hope and 25 for Bec Buchanan.
Player Onesays:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 7:35 pm
laughtong @ #1544 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 7:25 pm
Player One @ #1526 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 6:58 pm
Shogun @ #1516 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 6:43 pm
Player One
Just another Albotross …
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Albotross. I see what you did here – you combined Albo and albatross. Fucking brilliant – how do you come up with these gems?
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I can’t take much credit … I guess there just isn’t a lot of competition here.
——————————————————————–
I have seen that used by Herald Sun comment writers
——————————————————————–
You might want to go post there then.
=========================================================================
Sorry i don’t understand your logic here. You suggest they should post in the Herald Scum because you used an abusive term for Albo that Herald Scum commentators often use. Please correct if i’m wrong but why exactly does that mean they should post in the Herald Scum?.
“Are conservatives expected to have no opinions and express no opposition?”
We are all out of conservatives, they’ve been replace by far right radicals, you wouldn’t believe the rubbish they sprout. And having no opinions would be hard to measure, but given the quality of expression, it would be a win for everybody if ‘no expression at all’ was their chosen amont of expression.
davidwh
Suggesting that Australians are immature because they support 26 January being retained as Australia Day is arrogant and offensive to a large swathe of the population.
FUBAR says:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 8:05 pm
Suggesting that Australians are immature because they support 26 January being retained as Australia Day is arrogant and offensive to a large swathe of the population.
____________
Very true. We don’t want to offend the victors of the invasion. That would be too much.
Partly tongue in cheek I propose that the “conservative” position in life must be the easiest and laziest position to adopt for the reason conservatives don’t have to actually stand for anything, stick to the status quo for fear of what change may bring, and, in any event, oppose any kind of change on the basis that the status quo is always a preferred position to any change.
The position of the conservative falls back on the old saw….”If it ain’t broke don’t change it…..”
If the world followed their stance, we would still be in the caves. I thus find so-called “conservatives” predictable and boring.
However, the right-wing nuts who like to call themselves “conservatives” are in fact looking for radical change.
Those in this mob are the ones who need strong opposition.
Like Samson, they don’t care if they bring the metaphorical temple down on their own head and the heads of everyone else.
Trump and his MAGA mob (including so-called Christian/Evangelicals) are in this category……
Player One
Now, this is just a wild guess … did you vote “No” in the referendum?
It is just a wild guess. I voted Yes.
FUBAR my apologies if you have taken offense. Actually I was suggesting we need to mature more about accepting that 26 January 1788 has had long term impacts on our indigenous peoples and be prepare to consider alternative dates to celebrate our national date.
Having said that I think your comment was a major overreaction to what I wrote. But that is your right.
laughtong
I have seen that used by Herald Sun comment writers
I am prepared to believe that Player One did not plagiarise “Albotross” from Herald Sun comment writers. She might actually have come up with this brilliant portmanteau herself. Great minds think alike.
davidwh
No date will make all those who oppose 26 Jan happy.
‘The federal government has formally rejected a request from Ukraine to access Australia’s fleet of the now-retired Taipan helicopters.’
‘Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy said there are no Taipans that are currently in “flying condition”.
“To get any up to flying condition would require a huge investment in taxpayers’ funds, time and resources to do that,” he said.’
ABC Just In
Woolworths will fly Indigenous flags at some of its key locations despite a Coalition call to boycott the supermarket giant because it does not stock Australia Day merchandise, intensifying a political brawl over the national day. The company confirmed it would fly the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags alongside the Australian flag at some of its offices, but said this did not mean putting them at its 1400 stores.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/woolworths-to-fly-indigenous-flags-despite-coalition-boycott-call-20240118-p5eyf6.html
Why did Pie Shop Pat allow over a billion worth of kit be destroyed within months of putting the Taipans up for sale on the second hand helicopter market? When the investigation into the last crash wasn’t even complete?
When the USAF retired the F-117 Nighthawk they were very carefully put in storage and the are still flight worthy to this day (and indeed are often flown in various training ops). If Fort Fumble was in charge they would have been smashed up within months of Obama giving the order for retirement.
And here we are – not more than a few months after the final decision to retire the Taipans and lo and behold there IS a country who is desperate to use them: a country that we pretend to want to win an existential war and make great pretence of supporting ‘to the hilt’.
Frankly Pie Shop – and I suspect the Perfumed Warlord himself – really deserve to be sacked if they don’t do the honorable thing and simply resign.
How much money does the Australian government expect to make/save by breaking down the Taipan helicopter fleet for parts and cannibalising them? To prove they are not using ‘flightworthiness’ as a pretext for ‘penny-pinching’, they should earmark that money for assistance to the most morally unambiguous causes overseas.
“No date will make all those who oppose 26 Jan happy.”
Let’s just assume the USA has problems at home, and China invades and conquers Australia, imposing central rule from China, dictating the pubic holidays and celebrations, just how long is it before you joyfully celebrate the day of invasion? Ten minutes? Ten weeks? Or do you think you and your decendents can keep the memory of Australian freedom alive for 100 years?
Fubar I’m going to keep it simple.
You are a piece of work!
As described below.
A person who has a strong and unusual personality, especially one with seriously unpleasant character flaws (e.g. a nasty piece of work)
** Edited
The only real alternative to January 26 for Australia Day is January 1. Were it not for culture-warring, that might have a chance of getting consensus. It marks a significant milestone. It involves all States, unlike January 26 which is basically foundation day for NSW and Sydney. Conservatives and Progressives could feel comfortable with it. Possibly First Nations could be persuaded.
At some stage we should start a conversation. Not now. It’s impossible to have one with the current Opposition. Even if Peter Dutton goes in the near future, he’s likely to be replaced by someone worse. But eventually.
Then there’s the Flag. The same considerations apply here, plus there’s no obvious alternative. If it ever does change, it will probably be to something that arises spontaneously in the future and grabs enough peoples’ imaginations. That’s what happened with the Aboriginal flag, for example.
Been Theresays:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 8:57 pm
Fubar I’m going to keep it simple.
You are a piece of work!
=======================================================================
He is certainly not like the original Shakespeare quote though.
“What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust?”
I think consistent with another poster or two, there isn’t going to be a change of significance to our national symbols, our sense of self, or indeed shaking off the vestiges of a medieval institution from Briton in our life times.
It is because we are a nasty, scared, racist, weak and immature country unable to grapple with its past and unwilling to embrace our own power to tackle the future.
That is incredibly offensive, crushingly so, but nevertheless completely accurate.
Maybe one day Australia will have a population with the collective heart and soul to recognise the past, both good and bad, embrace the good and be willing to take on the future as fearlessy as a proud, confident independent people.
But I doubt any of us will live to see it. We will live out the small nasty racist weaknesses and fears of a tiny, pathetic not quite independent country.
OC, I reckon the Tories might punt it and leave it for Keir Starmer to sort out.
They’ll let the DUP stew in it in the meantime. Can’t see them introducing legislation to sort out the impasse.
Political opposition to Left-Green thinking is a character flaw. Apparently.
Entropy,
You post well, I enjoy your posts.
As a first nations person I can’t sit back and watch Fubar post their racist nonsense.
It’s time they were called out.
The LNP propaganda units are nothing but boils on the arse of the general population.
Yes Lars and crew, that’s you too!
Japan wants access to Australian military ranges to test missiles in further deepening of ties, as Anthony Albanese and Penny Wong dismissed China’s attempt to sow discord between Canberra and Tokyo over last year’s sonar incident that injured an Australian navy diver.
In a significant step up for Australia-Japan military ties, Japanese officials are advancing plans to use “Australia’s vast continent” as part of the development of their own missiles, during talks with Australian counterparts.
The Defence Department confirmed Australia is collaborating with Japan on long-range guided weapons and integrated air and missile defence, and said Japanese missiles had been fired as part of last year’s Exercise Talisman Sabre war games. “We will continue to collaborate with close partners for testing and training in Australia when these activities provide mutual benefits,” the department said.
The talks between officials were first reported by the Japan Times this week. Officials also canvassed drawing up plans for co-operation to respond to simultaneous military contingencies in the South China Sea and East China Sea because of the threat posed by China.
Mr Albanese and Japanese leader Fumio Kishida refreshed an agreement on security co-operation in 2022, while a reciprocal access agreement makes it easier for militaries to operate in each other’s country.
Japan has embraced a “counterstrike” doctrine to deter invasion. Like Australia, it is acquiring Tomahawk missiles from the US, while it plans to expand the range of its locally produced surface-to-ship missile from 200 kilometres to 1500 kilometres.
Australian Strategic Policy Institute analyst Malcolm Davis said Australian ranges would allow Japanese forces to test missiles for performance, including distances, accuracy, safety and how they evaded anti-missile defences. “Australia is graced with some of the best missile ranges in the world,” he said.
https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/japanese-plan-to-test-missiles-in-australia-revealed-20240118-p5ey6h
Wow, I just checked Pollbludger on my phone, and because you can’t use C+ I was exposed to the latest comment by Andrew_Earlwood. The guy knows nothing about the Taipans’ actual operational capacity as it stands right now but it doesn’t stop him going off the deep end about the Ministers in charge of making the decision about whether to hand them over to Ukraine or not. No ascertaining whether, if at all possible, the Ministers would have liked to give them away but circumstances dictated that they could not. Just straight into the abuse.
As they say in the classics, there’s no hater like a Labor hater.
Oh, and I can understand why he never got a job in a federal Minister’s office. That man is one loose unit.
Entropy says:
“What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals!
__________
What a wonderful quote. And the phrase ‘paragon of animals’, used by nineteenth century evolutionists and clearly showing that Shakespeare was probing around similar ideas two centuries prior.
Steve777,
It’s not an either/or thing, or at least it doesn’t have to be. Keep Australia Day on January 26th, for the people who like it that way, the schoolchildren and the majority of workers who head back to work for the year after it, and just gazette a new public holiday to recognise Indigenous Australians. Win-Win.
”Political opposition to Left-Green thinking is a character flaw. Apparently.”
Well yeah but there’s no need to worry. I am sure that through study, hard work and and thinking things through you’ll see the light… 🙂
C@tmommasays:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 9:26 pm
Steve777,
It’s not an either/or thing, or at least it doesn’t have to be. Keep Australia Day on January 26th, for the people who like it that way, the schoolchildren and the majority of workers who head back to work for the year after it, and just gazette a new public holiday to recognise Indigenous Australians. Win-Win.
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No Win Win there C@t!
Invasion day, 26th January is not a date for celebration!
There’s an ignored population out there who “don’t” like it that way.
Oh, but let’s not ruin anyone’s holiday thoughts!
I thought you were better than that.
JingoC@t – I am dead to you, remember?
I prefer it that way, so as to not suffer your batshit mad sprays.
Of course I realise NOW that the Taipan’s are fucked. Pie shop and the Perfumed One allowed fort fumble cut them up as soon as possible. That’s the point: a billion dollars worth of vandalism.
Now go back to blocking me please.
Been Theresays:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 9:19 pm
Entropy,
You post well, I enjoy your posts.
As a first nations person I can’t sit back and watch Fubar post their racist nonsense.
It’s time they were called out.
The LNP propaganda units are nothing but boils on the arse of the general population.
Yes Lars and crew, that’s you too!
=================================================================
I also find Fubar annoying. Though while i find his ideology often very judgemental and unforgiving plus numerous other flaws that you have already mentioned. He does debate his position honestly no matter how flawed that position is. Which is lot better than many other right wing posters on this site though.
Sorry about the quote, I’m well aware that it is used with a negative connotation just as you used it. It was just the fact that the original doesn’t have the connotation it does now i find intriguing. Have no idea when the current use of the phrase arose though and how it arose. Maybe during a Hamlet rehearsal someone badly stuffed up their lines and were told they were “a real piece of work” by someone in anger and the phrase stuck, who knows?.
Anyway keep calling Fubar out whenever he strays, which is often. Though unfortunately i don’t think we will change him. He is possibly a lost cause.
Been There @ #1577 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 9:33 pm
And I thought you were better than being blinkered about it. Indigenous Australians can’t have it all their own way wrt January 26th so I proposed a solution that would give both sides a win. The vast majority of the population, whether you like it or not, who came here after the Indigenous, and who identify with January 26 in a positive way, can celebrate it on that day, and Indigenous Australians who, as they don’t like January 26 can ignore it and celebrate the new beginning and recognition they received, on Mabo Day. If you identify January 26 as ‘Invasion Day’, then ignore it! However, you don’t have any greater right than I do to tell people that they can’t celebrate it.
Of course it should me noted that not all of c@t’s batshit crazy posts are directed towards me. …
I actually don’t mind jan 26 being contested. It will therefore always raise the issue of dispossession and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. What’s not realistic is thinking that just by changing the date all those issues and history are suddenly reconciled.
I’m on public transport a first nations kid needed to borrow my phone, three Australian women, I think a grandma and two of her grandchildren got on wearing their hijabs happy and laughing. Two Australians, probably from Africa, read their phones, an older Australian dude, probably from India or there about reads an old paper book.
We have so much potential, so much human capital, so rich a tapestry we could weave.
But no we need to cling to one white fragment of our past, we need to be saved from ourselves, by magic, noone can specify exactly how by some weird old english prick, with a very dodgy brother, somehow he is the sauce that keeps our society together.
An Australian woman, maybe from the Philippines, jumps off ready to cross the road into a new suburb of mcmansions, she is talking into her phone and smiles.
So much potential, but so little courage.
To which I will add, that you have every right to protest on January 26. Just don’t tell other people they shouldn’t celebrate on that day if they want to.
“To which I will add, that you have every right to protest on January 26. Just don’t tell other people they shouldn’t celebrate on that day if they want to.”
We wouldn’t dare, only people with a heart and soul and true love for all Australians should be advised that JAN 26 is a day that is fundamentally incapable of being a day that embraces us all. Others just won’t understand.
Oh C@t,
You know the 26th is not a happy point.
Anyone with a fair mind would not see it as that.
However, you and your happy Australia Day crew enjoy your flag waving while pretending the massacres never happened.
“The Crippled Peregrine moon lander expected to crash to Earth today carrying human remains
Re-entry is expected around 4 p.m. ET today (Jan. 18) over a patch of the South Pacific.”
Better luck for Japan’s “Smart Lander for Investigating Moon”, which will attempt to land on the Moon on Saturday:
Japan’s moon lander SLIM will attempt touchdown on the lunar surface this week
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2024-01-18/jaxa-slim-moon-landing-mission-explained-space/103318856
Socrates at 10.04 am
“3. IMO Australia should focus its foreign policy more on SE Asian and neighboring countries. Be more like Singapore and less like UK.
As Boerwar said, we need a security Plan B. Labor also needs a political and foreign policy plan B if Trump wins.”
Once upon a time, a generation ago, under Hawke and Keating, engagement with Asia, specifically including SE Asia even though the initial focus in the late 1980s was on NE Asia, was part of plan A.
In the official jargon, Labor’s foreign policy at that time had three foundations: the US Alliance, strong participation in the UN system, and increasing engagement with Asia. A three-cornered stool.
Not as sound as one with four corners (including the South Pacific) but much better than a stool with only two legs, one weaker than the other (following the US and less than comprehensive support for new UN initiatives, which come not from the Security Council but from the General Assembly).
It is unfortunate for Minister Wong that she is having to run a foreign policy more like the UK than like Singapore, especially when UK foreign policy is no less disastrous than its domestic Covid policy.
Been There @ #1586 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 9:57 pm
And you can pretend that’s all that counts. Hint: it’s not. As bad as it has been. It’s a thing, but it’s not everything.
Time to post Minister Conroy’s own words on the government’s decision to put into effect the disposal strategy for the grounded (now, defunct) Taipan helicopter fleet:
“After the tragic crash last year we were faced with a circumstance where the fleet had to be grounded while those crash investigations were undertaken, and they’re still ongoing,” Minister Conroy said.
“The government made the decision to permanently ground the fleet, and in September last year, some months before any request was received, we began the disposal strategy. We then worked with Airbus, the manufacturer of the helicopter, to establish whether there was any existing users that were interested in the air frames, and there were none.
“We then contracted NATO Helicopter Industries to do a global scan of the market to see if anyone was interested in buying the air frames who was a new customer. There was zero interest in buying the air frames.
“Therefore, the best value for taxpayers was to disassemble the aircraft and to begin selling the spare parts. Because the other option would have been to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to Airbus Australia to maintain these aircraft in a flying condition when there was no prospect that they would be flying again for the Australian Army.”
https://australianaviation.com.au/2024/01/disposing-of-taipans-best-value-for-money-says-conroy/
I don’t blame an Australian Government for prioritising its own country’s budget over a foreign country’s defence. It’s what they’re elected and paid for. As long as they don’t try to pass themselves off as doing ‘everything they can’ to help that foreign country – or as much as other countries are.
I also wouldn’t mind knowing just how much money they make from ‘selling the spare parts’. If none of that money at all goes to helping other countries in dire need, it will be hard for them not to see that as a slap in the face.
Entropy @ #1551 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 7:56 pm
Did I touch a nerve?
Tne first nations kids who didn’t seem to know the route at all, spots his brother he has called twice with my phone waiting at a stop, he smiles a smile that would light up any room and shakes my hand to thank me for lending him my phone.
The driver in a turban, probably sikh, wishes me a good evening and I thank him.
We could be so much more. Our parts already are.
Shogun @ #1556 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 8:20 pm
Then you’d be happy to see the “voice” I described get up then?
Been There says:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 9:19 pm
“As a first nations person I can’t sit back and watch Fubar post their racist nonsense.”
What have I said that is racist?
Just because you disagree with my opinion doesn’t make me a racist.
C@tmomma @ #1573 Thursday, January 18th, 2024 – 9:20 pm
LOL! You used to use that excuse as to why you always managed to somehow see my posts, even when you claimed to have blocked me.
Ah … good times! 🙂
Steve777 says:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 9:04 pm
‘Then there’s the Flag. The same considerations apply here, plus there’s no obvious alternative. If it ever does change, it will probably be to something that arises spontaneously in the future and grabs enough peoples’ imaginations. That’s what happened with the Aboriginal flag, for example.’
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Regarding changing the flag, the Kiwis had two referendums to change their flag (2015-2016), which may be even more crap than ours, and the they both failed. And I’m guessing it’s easier to win a referendum there than it is here.
I’m adding ‘changing the flag’ to my list of things I’m not going to live to see:
Nuclear submarines
The completion of the South Road upgrade.
Changing the flag
I actually don’t care about the flag. I can’t stand patriotic flag waving bullshit (obviously I don’t feel that way about the Indigenous flags). And, I also think our wonderfully divisive crap flag probably helps keep a lid on all the above mentioned flag waving bullshit.
Been Theresays:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 9:33 pm
Invasion day, 26th January is not a date for celebration!
==============================================================
Australia day will be changed one day. That day will be when the right wingers realise that more people are remembering it as invasion day than celebrating it as Australia day. When that time arises, which one day it will. The right wingers will be the ones promoting the moving of the date too. As the polling will show it is doing more to educate the Australian public about the wrongs of the European settlement of this country. Than it is doing to promote the patriotic jingoism they are trying to flog. The polling shows we have some way to go to reach this time, but polling also shows we steadily heading in that direction also.
WeWantPaul says:
Thursday, January 18, 2024 at 9:15 pm
“It is because we are a nasty, scared, racist, weak and immature country unable to grapple with its past and unwilling to embrace our own power to tackle the future.”
Utter rubbish. Just because the rest of Australia doesn’t agree with your extremist views doesn’t make Australia and Australians anything like you describe.
“Just because you disagree with my opinion doesn’t make me a racist.”
Whether or not you or I are racist isn’t really a function of who disagrees with us, it is a function solely of the beliefs / views we hold and express, you can be as racist as hell without anyone ever disagreeing with you or pointing it out.
Andrew_Earlwood at 6.51 pm
You wrote: ‘How about changing the 26th of January from “Australia Day” to “Australia’s National Day of Celebration and Reconciliation”?’
Have you become a summer jester, ignorant of history, both recent regarding the Voice and 80 + years old?
For 1938 see: https://aiatsis.gov.au/explore/day-of-mourning
For 2023 read again the essay by Prof. Marcia Langton on the day of the referendum vote:
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/indigenous-affairs/2023/10/14/marcia-langton-whatever-the-outcome-reconciliation-dead#hrd
She was very serious. Not many politicians, including Labor ones, have adjusted to the new reality.
Talking about “Australia’s National Day of Celebration and Reconciliation” without a historic move toward, instead of away from, a genuine settlement with Australia’s First Peoples is like talking about the UN as if the Security Council actually worked. It is poor fiction masquerading as non-fiction.
For both topics the dates are similar, though the contexts different. A brief era of expectation (as it was called in the last chapter of the DFAT book Australia and the United Nations, 2012) occurred in the early to mid-1990s. It ended within a few years, notwithstanding occasional, haphazard episodes of subsequent progress on the international and regional stage (East Timorese self-determination).
For Indigenous peoples, Hawke occasionally raised expectations but achieved much less in 8 years than Whitlam had in three, when Whitlam faced a much more determined and ruthless Opposition.
In retrospect, it was tragic that ATSIC took 6 years for Labor to develop, instead of being a focus of creative reform in Hawke’s first term rather than his third. Much might have been different if, instead of trying to distance himself from Whitlam’s legacy in Indigenous affairs, as well as in other areas, Hawke had come to power with a real agenda of transformative change, rather than a rhetorical one.