Weekend miscellany: YouGov and Morgan, NSW Senate vacancy latest (open thread)

YouGov returns to the polling game, and some surprise late names emerge to fill Marise Payne’s Liberal Senate vacancy.

Federally relevant developments of note from the past week that do not specifically relate to the Indigenous Voice referendum:

• As noted as a post-script to the Indigenous Voice post, YouGov has entered the polling game independently of its former status as the pollster behind Newspoll. Its debut federal voting intention result had Labor leading 53-47 on two-party preferred, from primary votes of Labor 33%, Coalition 35% and Greens 13%. Anthony Albanese recorded a net approval rating of minus 3%, Peter Dutton recorded minus 17%, and Albanese led as preferred prime minister by 50-33. The poll was conducted Monday to Friday before last from a sample of 1563.

• This week’s Roy Morgan poll has Labor’s lead narrowing from 54-46 to 52-48, from primary votes of Labor 32.5%, Coalition 37.5% and Greens 13%.

• With the close of nominations on Wednesday, ten candidates came forward for the preselection to fill Marise Payne’s Liberal Senate vacancy in New South Wales. The long-presumed front-runner, former state government minister Andrew Constance, faces two high-profile late starters in Zed Seselja, who lost his ACT Senate seat to David Pocock at the last election, and Dave Sharma, who lost Wentworth to Allegra Spender. Max Maddison of the Sydney Morning Herald reports that a two-horse race is anticipated between Constance and Seselja, who are respectively likely to dominate the moderate and conservative blocs. Seselja is one of a number of conservatives to take the field following Nyunggai Warren Mundine’s withdrawal, the others including Monica Tudehope, former policy director to Dominic Perrottet, and Jess Collins, researcher for the Lowy Institute. Also in the field are Lou Amato, a former state upper house member; James Brown, Space Industry Association chief executive; and lawyers Ishita Sethi and Pallavi Sinha. UPDATE: Alexi Demaitriadi of The Australian further reports that the missing name is solicitor Nimalan Rutnam; that moderate support is solid behind Constance, leaving Sharma with no chance; and that “insiders with knowledge of the situation cautioned against underestimating Mr Amato’s numbers”. The vote will take place on November 26.

• The process for the federal redistribution in New South Wales, necessitated by its loss of a seat in the regular mid-term entitlement calculation, has advanced with the setting of October 27 as the deadline for suggestions and the publication of the enrolment data that will be used to make the determination. The latter and its implications have been examined by Antony Green and Ben Raue.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

336 comments on “Weekend miscellany: YouGov and Morgan, NSW Senate vacancy latest (open thread)”

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  1. Good work, Coalition, being on the side of government-owned business, Qatar Airways, and the murderous regimes in Saudi Arabia and Iran, who are supporting Hamas. 😐

  2. I think World War III may have started. 🙁

    Russia, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia…all together plotting next moves and preparing military states to fight, it seems.

    Who knows what comes next?

  3. World news roundup

    Israel halts electricity supply to Gaza Strip: Energy minister: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/10/07/Israel-will-cut-off-its-supply-of-electricity-to-Gaza-Energy-minister
    Pentagon says it will support Israel after Netanyahu declares war: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4243366-pentagon-says-it-will-support-israel-after-leader-declares-war/
    An Israeli airstrike has flattened a high-rise building in central Gaza City after Hamas launched a surprise attack: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/israeli-airstrike-flattened-high-rise-building-central-gaza-103807208
    Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran say Israel has only itself to blame for Hamas attack: https://thehill.com/policy/international/4243388-saudi-arabia-qatar-iran-blame-israel-hamas-attacks/
    Hamas surprise attack a ‘historic failure’ for Israeli intelligence services: https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231007-hamas-surprise-attack-a-historic-failure-for-israeli-intelligence-services
    Hamas terror attack: Militants post videos of Israeli hostages including mother and baby: https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-claims-to-have-abducted-israelis-and-taken-them-back-into-the-gaza-1fHCn0t8CPSnFK4ksDmWkg
    ‘Sea of bodies’ in Israel, scores dead in Gaza as shock Hamas attack unleashes war: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/sirens-warning-incoming-rockets-sound-around-gaza-near-tel-aviv-2023-10-07/
    Netanyahu offered Lapid and Gantz entry into a ‘broad emergency government’: https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-762161
    UN Security Council to Meet Sunday over Attacks on Israel: https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/4591061-un-security-council-meet-sunday-over-attacks-israel
    EU condemns Hamas attack on Israel as ‘terrorism in its most despicable form’: https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-ursulva-von-der-leyen-hamas-palestina-condemns-terrorism/
    ‘In Solidarity At This Difficult Hour’: PM Modi Expresses ‘Deep Shock’ Over Hamas Attack on Israel: https://www.news18.com/india/in-solidarity-at-this-difficult-hour-pm-modi-expresses-deep-shock-over-hamas-attack-on-israel-8607269.html
    Ukraine’s accession would cost €186B, EU estimates: https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-accession-cost-186-billion-eu-enlargement/
    A Pennsylvania chocolate factory was fined more than $44,000 by the federal workplace safety agency on Thursday for failing to evacuate before a natural gas explosion that killed seven people: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/pennsylvania-chocolate-factory-fined-failing-evacuate-fatal-natural-103766636
    Witnesses to FBI hunt for Civil War gold describe heavily loaded armored truck, signs of a night dig: https://apnews.com/article/civil-war-gold-fbi-dig-pennsylvania-6b5feca00ebf3e04638a8bbce992809d
    Ex-soldier indicted for trying to pass U.S. defense info to China: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ex-soldier-indicted-passing-us-defense-info-china-joseph-daniel-schmidt/
    Pence slams Trump, GOP ‘voices of appeasement’ as Israel comes under attack: https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/07/gop-presidential-hopefuls-reaffirm-support-for-israel-following-hamas-attack-00120481

  4. BREAKING: Palestinian health ministry says death toll has risen to 232 and 1700 injured
    BREAKING: Israeli death toll rises to over 290
    Turkey’s Erdogan calls on Israelis and Palestinians to act with ‘restraint’
    The UAE calls for ‘immediate ceasefire’ between Israelis and Palestinians

  5. On a lighter note:

    Reg Lynch

    Matt Golding

    Matt Davidson

    Simon Letch

    Oslo Davis
    Overheard #794 – Number 57 Tram, Monday, 4pm: School kid: “I wanna go to the airport and just book the next flight.” Old lady: “Sounds fun.”

    Dionne Gain

  6. Thanks Holdenhillbilly

    Hi C@T

    I recall suggesting some weeks back that the Russian war in Ukraine would provide opportunities elsewhere as the eyes of major players were turned inward and they were distracted (though I also think the state of confusion in US politics is also a small factor). This is one such example I think. Typically though it’s Israel that often takes that opportunity but not this time apparently.

    This explanation in Reuters provides a not-unreasonable basis for the timing and reasoning of the Hamas attack.

    “ Meanwhile, Washington has been trying to strike a deal that would normalise ties between Israel and Saudi Arabia, seen by Israelis as the biggest prize yet in their decades-long for Arab recognition. Palestinians fear any such deal could sell out their future dreams of an independent state.”

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/sirens-warning-incoming-rockets-sound-around-gaza-near-tel-aviv-2023-10-07/

    Snap, thanks again HH

    Apparently Pence thinks similarly about the weakness caused by Trump in US politics and the international ramifications.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/07/gop-presidential-hopefuls-reaffirm-support-for-israel-following-hamas-attack-00120481

  7. Cronus,
    To your point about the US, I read an analysis which said that, to the supporters of Putin in the Republican Party, shutting down the government and making it dysfunctional so that the President and the Democrat-dominated Senate are hog-tied, is a feature, not a bug of their strategy and tactics.

    I imagine the President has some reserve powers that could override this, but I’m sure he doesn’t want to have to use them. Especially considering the number of guns the population who support Putin’s bedfellow, Donald Trump, have there.

    Dark, unpredictable days ahead, unless Israel get on top of this. They really should have made a deal with the Palestinians long ago, instead of tightening the screws on them continuously.

  8. With so many Israeli hostages supposedly having been taken by Hamas back to Gaza, Israel will be considering an Entebbe-style rescue but in a vastly different and more dangerous scenario and environment.

    Whilst I morally disagree with the move by Hamas to take hostages , I think tactically this was a clever as they’ll spread the hostages widely throughout Gaza making it very challenging for Israel to identify and save them in one of the most densely populated regions on earth. In this scenario hostages are a strong bargaining chip for future negotiations, such as they will be.

  9. Cronus,
    Also, there are plenty of tunnels under Gaza, so who knows where the hostages will be taken? Out of Gaza entirely?

  10. C@T

    “ Dark, unpredictable days ahead, unless Israel get on top of this. They really should have made a deal with the Palestinians long ago, instead of tightening the screws on them continuously.”
    —————————-

    +1. Such actions and policies will always have terrible ramifications regardless of the countries and populations involved . Stealing land, killing people, removing all rights and confining them will not continue without a response.

  11. Gary Johns has plans to promote Assimilation of Indigenous Australians, by turning his ‘No’ campaign vehicle into a charity, after the referendum is over:

    Controversial anti-Voice advocate Gary Johns will reinvent the No campaign organisation, Recognise a Better Way, as a charity after the referendum with the aim of researching the effectiveness of programs in Indigenous communities and countering the dominance of “elites” in Aboriginal affairs.

    Johns, a former federal Labor minister who established the No vehicle with Nyunggai Warren Mundine, has been widely criticised in recent months for racially inflammatory remarks about Indigenous Australians, including that they should be blood-tested to access welfare payments.

    Johns, former Prime Minister Tony Abbott and other conservatives have used the referendum debate to elevate their argument that much of Indigenous policy entrenches separatism and is grounded in flawed, left-wing understandings of disadvantage.

    In an interview, Johns confirmed his plan to transition Recognise a Better Way into a charity called Close the Gap Research, which he told supporters in an email last month was designed to break the “stranglehold of the elites over Aboriginal policy”.

    “Clearly, there’s a gap and we’ve been spending a lot of money, supposedly to help close that gap. We don’t know whether it’s all being used to best effect. You can’t prejudge how difficult this task is. So we’re prepared to help out,” he said.

    Johns, a former head of the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission, said the research outfit would be “organised for the relief of the poverty or distress of Aboriginal people in need”. He said “need” would be identified by partnering with service providers working in three areas: school scholarships, employment and prisoner rehabilitation.

    The organisation would then seek to assess the efficacy of their programs, he said.

    “We will approach those organisations that are currently doing work with students, or employment or in prisoner rehab … we do need for them to tell their story but especially their method and their measured outcomes. I think that’s the sort of missing bit that will restore trust,” he said.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/how-this-no-campaign-group-plans-to-reinvent-itself-after-the-voice-referendum-20231005-p5ea32.html

  12. C@tmomma says:
    Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 7:37 am
    Cronus,
    Also, there are plenty of tunnels under Gaza, so who knows where the hostages will be taken? Out of Gaza entirely?
    ———

    C@T

    Though that would only drag Egypt into the war by association which they’d never want. I suspect they’ll keep them in Gaza in a mixture of tunnels but also buildings as protection for Gazans though this is also risky from a number of perspectives. Firstly intelligence as it’s difficult to maintain secrecy for long periods (though they may move hostages irregularly) but secondly because it places the locals of Gaza at further risk.

  13. C@T 7:42am

    “ Johns, former Prime Minister Tony Abbott and other conservatives have used the referendum debate to elevate their argument that much of Indigenous policy entrenches separatism and is grounded in flawed, left-wing understandings of disadvantage.”
    ————-

    Really, they think the Left wing’s understanding of disadvantage is flawed? The ultimate colonial positioning methinks.

  14. The current situation in Israel is a bit like an air disaster in that a combination of factors have all come together to cause it.

    A sizeable segment of the Israeli population continues to believe that Benjamin Netanyahu is a tough guy who will keep them safe: among older voters, some of this is still tied to the heroic efforts of his brother Yonatan, who died leading the rescue of the hostages at Entebbe in 1976.

    This segment of the population is big enough to sustain Likud as a major player in Israeli politics but not big enough nowadays to enable it to govern in its own right. Some say that Netanyahu would do pretty much anything to be in government because that protects him from the various open criminal cases against him. I don’t understand the complexities of the Israeli legal system to be sure that this assertion is correct. But, for whatever reason, Netanyahu – who used to have some principles – now seems to be prepared even to do a deal with the devil in order to get into government and, before the 2022 election, he did just this by creating a coalition featuring pretty much all of the religious far right, even the pro-settler Religious Zionist Party.

    The consequences were inevitably going to be something like this. The settler movement – now with the full backing of the government – is putting unbearable pressure on the Palestinian residents of the West Bank and some sort of lashing out was inevitable. But the attack was always going to come not from there but from Gaza, where it is much easier for the terrorists to stockpile weapons.

    The aims of extremists such as the Religious Zionist Party is nothing less than to expunge all Palestinians from the occupied territories. This is, of course, an insane objective and no sensible major political figure would ever give its proponents any credence unless, as we have already noted, they were in desperate need of the support of those same extremists to hold government.

    Netanyahu has comprehensively failed to keep Israelis safe: rather, he has allowed extremists to stir up the trouble that we are now seeing. It’s a mystery as to what went wrong with the usually excellent Israeli intelligence services, but blame for that has to be sheeted home to Netanyahu too. He should also be criticised for giving such a powerful role in his government to the “free rider” element of Israeli society: the orthodox groups who expect to be defended by the Israeli military but who refused to allow their young people to serve in that military.

    Once the dust settles on this disaster, the honourable thing for the Likud Party to do would be to depose Netanyahu as leader, and then seek to form a government of national unity with the opposition. Israel’s future prospects would improve greatly. However, I fear that something like this can’t happen until more Likud voters – particularly the older more fearful ones – wake up to the risks they face from having extremists wielding power in their government. And that might take a little while longer.

    BTW, the Israeli election system and the opposition parties also need to get some of the blame for what has happened. The rather silly electoral rule that means that voters for a small party squander their votes unless that party reaches 3.25 per cent of the vote (I think that’s what it is these days, it used to be less). While Netanyahu cleverly pulled together a unified coalition and thereby avoided the 3.25 per cent problem – the opposition allowed its votes to splinter and many votes were consequently squandered: potentially enough to have prevented Netanyahu’s coalition from forming a government.

    So, as I said at the start, Israel has experienced the political and governmental equivalent of an air crash. And it won’t be easy to fix. For its strong supporters around the world, among whom I number myself, it’s a horrific state of affairs.

  15. ”Gary Johns has plans to promote Assimilation of Indigenous Australians, by turning his ‘No’ campaign vehicle into a charity, after the referendum is over”

    A right-wing political organisation disguised as a charity…

  16. Really, they think the Left wing’s understanding of disadvantage is flawed?

    It’s only flawed from an Assimilationist’s perspective.

    Gary Johns has said he thinks all Aboriginals should speak English. In the article he says he wants his ‘charity’ (what an abuse of the term), to focus on education, employment and prisoner rehabilitation. It doesn’t take an Einstein to figure out what path he wants to go down with all that.

  17. c@t: “To your point about the US, I read an analysis which said that, to the supporters of Putin in the Republican Party, shutting down the government and making it dysfunctional so that the President and the Democrat-dominated Senate are hog-tied, is a feature, not a bug of their strategy and tactics.
    I imagine the President has some reserve powers that could override this, but I’m sure he doesn’t want to have to use them. Especially considering the number of guns the population who support Putin’s bedfellow, Donald Trump, have there.”

    I wonder how much money might have flowed from Russia through various back channels into the campaign funds of some of the Republican pro-Putinists? And I wonder if any information about this could be made publicly known? That would be helpful, as it would put enormous pressure on some of the few remaining principle Republicans to do a deal with the Dems to enable the Ukraine funding to go through Congress.

  18. Victoria: “Frankly Netanyahu has blood on his hands. He should exit stage left.”

    He’ll be understandably reluctant if, as some say, exiting stage left takes him into a perp walk.

  19. ‘Steve777 says:
    Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 8:00 am

    ”Gary Johns has plans to promote Assimilation of Indigenous Australians, by turning his ‘No’ campaign vehicle into a charity, after the referendum is over”

    A right-wing political organisation disguised as a charity…’
    ———————————-
    Tax deductible donations. Pay yourself a motsa to run it. Charity tax scams are completely out of control.

  20. I assume that in the interests of not fostering separtism John’s charity will investigate the elites and their spending on non-Indigenous corporate subsidies, tax scams, and the like.

    It will be even-handed, won’t it?

  21. Jonathan Steinberg, the commanding officer of Israel’s Nahal Infantry Brigade, was killed in clashes with Hamas.
    Hamas says it has launched 150 missiles at Tel Aviv.
    Palestinian Foreign Ministry has requested urgent meeting of the Arab League.
    Israeli death toll passes 300, with over 1600 injured.
    Foreign Minister Penny Wong has condemned attacks by Hamas against Israel and says Australia recognises the country’s right to defend itself.

  22. I wonder how much money might have flowed from Russia through various back channels into the campaign funds of some of the Republican pro-Putinists? And I wonder if any information about this could be made publicly known? That would be helpful, as it would put enormous pressure on some of the few remaining principle Republicans to do a deal with the Dems to enable the Ukraine funding to go through Congress.

    meher baba,
    To that point, I read yesterday that this is the reason Donald Trump is fighting his NY Fraud case so hard. One of the upshots of it is that he will have to turn over information to the court about who funds his businesses and has loaned him money.

  23. Meanwhile, Iran’s foreign ministry said attacks by its ally Hamas on Israel on Saturday were an act of self-defence by Palestinians, and called on Muslim countries to support their rights. Qatar echoed that sentiment with remarks that Israel alone was responsible for the ongoing escalation of violence with the Palestinian people.

    The Iran-backed Lebanese group Hezbollah, one of Israel’s adversaries, said it was in direct contact with the leadership of the Palestinian resistance. It said the action by Hamas was “a message to those seeking normalisation with Israel”.

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-at-war-hostages-taken-to-gaza-sirens-and-explosions-continue-as-night-falls-20231008-p5eaih.html

    I’m sure Julian Leeser, and other Jewish members of the Coalition are so glad that the Coalition have gone out on a limb to support Qatar Airways. 😐

  24. I had some dealings with Gary Johns more than three decades ago when he was one of the junior Ministers assisting the Prime Minister (I can’t remember what his title was back then). He was pretty unimpressive. I understand that he was a protege of David Combe and Bob McDodgy : in other words, he came from the part of the Labor Party that considered itself to be morally superior to all of those Labor members who got involved in all of that factional fighting nonsense. (Andrew Leigh – of whom I’m not a fan but I know is beloved by many on here – also comes from that tradition, but there aren’t many around these days. In my view, if people want to belong to the Labor Party then they have a perfectly reasonable choice between the elves and pixies on the left and the sensible pragmatists on the right. There’s no need for other options.)

    Because of my interest in the matters discussed, I took the trouble to purchase a copy of Johns’s book about Aboriginal self-determination that he published around a decade or so back. I read about half of it, and then gave it away as a rambling load of ridiculous assertions.

    It appears one of Johns’s main objections to Indigenous people having more rights is that it would prevent mining projects from going ahead. Johns also appears to be a big fan of the tobacco industry. He comes across nowadays as a rather wimpy sort of kid who tries to talk as tough as he can in the hope that the really bad boys and girls like Bolt and Credlin will let him hang with them.

  25. Morning all. I was out last night with friends and have just been catching up with the Gaza War. Thanks to Holden Hillbilly for the roundup and Cronus for some very useful answers to questions.

    I can’t see the Hamas attack being a false flag or any kind of accidental skirmish. It is well organised and being on the 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur was symbolically to good an opportunity to pass up. Plus with recent possible rapprochement with Saudi Arabia they had to wedge Israel before it it is too late from their viewpoint.

    USA was correct to get out of the Mid East because their presence there didn’t solve the conflicts. Bit their leaving doesn’t mean they are solved either.

    The UN can’t fix this given Russia and China’s position. Russia is probably supporting it.

    Hard not to think we will see more conflict from multiple groups with (often legitimate) grievances against ruling powers. Yemen, Lebanon, Syria…

    Hezbolah is notably absent and will be fearful of any Israeli reaction and further land losses if they join in. Given the obvious planning, that is significant.

    I have no idea how long this will last or how it will end. It won’t be quick. And fill your petrol tank ASAP.

  26. A Ukrainian’s perspective:


    Igor Sushko
    @igorsushko
    ·
    3h
    Israel: War has arrived in Tel Aviv.
    We in the collective West must get our act together & act assertively to defeat the Global Terror Axis – Russia, Iran, North Korea, and their enablers.
    I can’t help but think inadequate support of Ukraine precipitated this.

  27. C@tmomma, your posts this morning attacking the LNP have a flavour of Rexology in the opposite direction 🙂

    But in all seriousness, in your first post, I just would like to mention that Saudi Arabia aren’t bedfellows with Qatar. The proposed decrease in hostilities between Saudi Arabia and Israel may have been one of the triggers of the current situation.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/riyadh-said-willing-to-boost-oil-output-to-help-clinch-normalization-deal-with-israel/

    EDIT: I see Socrates has also mentioned the Saudi -Israel situation.

  28. Re the chaos in the US Congress, I believe that the political Right subscribes to the “chaos is a ladder” theory. They don’t want Government to run properly unless they’re in charge. If not, they work with allies to do all they can to obstruct and to promote an atmosphere of chaos.

    We saw that locally with Opposition Leader Tony Abbott from 2009-13. Peter Dutton is working from the same playbook. We’ve seen it is the USA during Democrat administrations over the past 30 years. It’s not going to stop here or there until what the Right see as the natural order is restored.

  29. ‘Highly political judge’: Gagged Trump launches another tirade over fraud case

    Donald Trump on Saturday lashed out against those involved in the civil fraud case threatening his businesses, including the judge and the New York Attorney General, despite a gag order protecting court staff.

    The former president has consistently leveled attacks against Judge Arthur Engoron and AG Letitia James, often calling the latter racist.

    “The Corrupt A.G.’s Fake Trial in New York should be immediately ended,” Trump wrote Saturday. “The highly political Judge is being CONNED by the Racist A.G.”

    Trump goes on to suggest Engoron had “made up his mind before learning the facts.”

    “There were NO DEFAULTS – ALL LOANS WERE PAID IN FULL, EARLY, OR CURRENT. They made their maximum, and are ‘thrilled.’ Letitia ‘Peekaboo’ James is a total Wack Job, as MURDERS AND VIOLENT CRIME HIT RECORD HIGHS IN NEW YORK.

    https://www.rawstory.com/trump-judge-ag/

  30. I wonder if the Israel-Gaza crisis will impact the US House of Representatives Speaker election. There is going to be a reluctance to go with a non-interventionist by many sections in the Republican conference. But then again, many sections are going to be keen to blame Biden and therefore will want a “no compromise” candidate also.

  31. This article provides a roll call of countries and their responses to the situation:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-stresses-palestinian-right-to-self-defense-amid-condemnation-of-hamas-assault/

    Summary: Key players The Palestinian authority and Qatar are blaming Israel but the former do not mention the conflict and the latter are asking for “de-escalation”. Egypt are also attempting to defuse. Interestingly Russia is also calling for “restraint”.

    From last night we know that Hezbollah is praising the attack and says it is a signal to Arab countries seeking to normalise relations with Israel (hello Saudi Arabia). They are key to escalation. We have yet to hear from Syria or Iran. It is poignant that Narges Mohammadi was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize yesterday.

  32. Perhaps this has something to do with the situation in Palestine/Israel, but I don’t expect the western media to mention it.

  33. It is always of interest to question how and by the assistance of whom people have become wealthy (in the monetary sense that is)

    Murdoch’s Head Office was on North Terrace in Adelaide publishing an afternoon paper in Adelaide, South Australia in competition with a morning broadsheet

    And came close to not existing, circulation from the Chamberlain case where it prosecuted guilty saving circulation and the business

    So how, and with the support of whom, did he get to what we see today?

    The critical question being with the support of whom – so who hides in the shadows of financial support including providing loan support (noting the publicly listed status but apart from Capital and Reserves who lurks on the Balance Sheets, Balance Sheets being a Group so most complex to net out inter Company transactions)

    And for every action there is a reaction

    I note in an ABC contribution on line that Putin and the former President of Ukraine attended comedy performances together – and that allies of the current Ukraine President being performers were within an arms length of both so could have killed Putin

    Human beings make an art form of not getting on, hey?

    And the reason is self importance – or perception of self importance

  34. The ABC News team are describing flares as rockets in pictures in Sderot at the moment. That suggest that there are still Hamas fighters within the village who the Israelis are trying to flush out. They may have been lying low and emerged to attack the Israelis from behind.

  35. We HAVE heard from Iran, and it appears that Saudi Arabia are walking on the fence:

    The governments of Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Iran appeared to blame Israel for its escalating conflict with Hamas on Saturday.

    The Palestinian militant group launched a mass attack on Israeli forces and settlements, killing at least 250 people in Israel and 232 in Gaza early Saturday, according to Israeli local media and the Palestinian government.

    While leaders in the U.S. and Europe quickly denounced the attack and gave support for Israel, the three Middle Eastern nations criticized the country over its treatment of Palestinians.

    “The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is closely following the developments of the unprecedented situation between a number of Palestinian factions and the Israeli occupation forces, which has resulted in a high level of violence on several fronts there,” the country’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

    “The Kingdom recalls its repeated warnings of the dangers of the explosion of the situation as a result of the continued occupation, and deprivation of the Palestinian people of their legitimate rights, and the repetition of systematic provocations against its sanctities,” the statement continues.

    The condemnation comes as both the Israeli and Saudi governments have attempted to normalize relations in recent years, at the encouragement of the U.S.

    A senior Iranian government advisor explicitly endorsed Hamas in the conflict, the most direct support for the militant group from any government official globally.

    “We congratulate the Palestinian fighters,” advisor Yahya Rahim Safavi said, according to state media via Reuters. “We will stand by the Palestinian fighters until the liberation of Palestine and Jerusalem.”

    Iran state media showed video of parliament members chanting in support of Hamas on Saturday, saying “Death to Israel” and “Palestine is victorious, Israel will be destroyed”.

    Iran has funded and supplied Hamas for years as part of its decades-long conflict with Israel.

    The Qatari Foreign Ministry also blamed Israel for the violence.

    “The Ministry of Foreign Affairs holds Israel alone responsible for the current escalation due to this ongoing violations of the rights of the Palestinian people, the latest of which is the repeated raids on the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque under of the protection of Israeli police,” the ministry said in a statement.

    https://thehill.com/policy/international/4243388-saudi-arabia-qatar-iran-blame-israel-hamas-attacks/

  36. B.S. Fairman @ #35 Sunday, October 8th, 2023 – 7:48 am

    I wonder if the Israel-Gaza crisis will impact the US House of Representatives Speaker election. There is going to be a reluctance to go with a non-interventionist by many sections in the Republican conference. But then again, many sections are going to be keen to blame Biden and therefore will want a “no compromise” candidate also.

    Whatever happens, Republican intransigence in holding up the appointment of key military personnel is looking rather stupid right about now.

  37. Confessions @ #NaN Sunday, October 8th, 2023 – 9:02 am

    B.S. Fairman @ #35 Sunday, October 8th, 2023 – 7:48 am

    I wonder if the Israel-Gaza crisis will impact the US House of Representatives Speaker election. There is going to be a reluctance to go with a non-interventionist by many sections in the Republican conference. But then again, many sections are going to be keen to blame Biden and therefore will want a “no compromise” candidate also.

    Whatever happens, Republican intransigence in holding up the appointment of key military personnel is looking rather stupid right about now.

    Unless, their aim is to weaken the US’s military response.

  38. The suggestion is Biden will seek a US100Bn aid authorisation for Ukraine – on the basis of this is the final request and enough to see Ukraine out past the Nov 24 election.

    Good idea – remains to be seen if it gets through the cray-cray Republican factions in the HoR.

    Probably should have done it whilst McCarthy was in the Chair.

  39. C@tmomma says:
    Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:01 am

    Thanks for the Iran comments. Looks like status quo for them i.e. resource and intelligence support . Still waiting on Syria.

  40. Q: Re the chaos in the US Congress, I believe that the political Right subscribes to the “chaos is a ladder” theory.

    Also, they actually don’t believe in Government, it doesn’t bother them to destroy something they think shouldn’t exist.
    Morrison didn’t care that all his Departments were dysfunctional -it just proved Government is useless and redundant.

  41. Its Putin’s 71 birthday – last Ukraine celebrated with the hit on the Kerch Bridge, see if there is a new treat in store?

  42. Further to Iran, comment published by the Guardian live blog:

    “The U.S does not have anything to suggest Iran was involved in “specific” Hamas attacks on Israel, a senior official said.

    The US official also denied that Iran had any specific warning or indicator of the strike before it happened.”

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