Today’s Daily Telegraph has a YouGov poll showing 46% support for a yes vote in a referendum on an indigenous voice compared with 30% for no, with 24% undecided. Support was at 61% among Labor voters, 31% among Coalition voters and 72% among the small sample of Greens voters. Sixty-eight per cent rated that the government had done a poor job of explaining how the voice would work, with no detail provided on other responses. The poll was conducted online “last week” from a sample of 1069. UPDATE: The poll was limited to New South Wales.
Other than that, the only bit of recent polling I’m aware of is the return of Roy Morgan’s weekly update video and its regular serving of thin gruel on federal voting intention. This records Labor’s two-party lead at 59.5-40.5, out from 58.5-41.5 before the summer break, and a notably wide gap from a series that had found Labor with relatively modest leads for much of last year.
Also:
• Following the death on Tuesday of New South Wales Liberal Senator Jim Molan, reports suggest the front-runner to succeed him is fellow conservative Dallas McInerney, chief executive of Catholic Schools NSW. However, Max Maddison of The Australian reports some moderates believe the faction should try to poach the seat for one of their own, the chief contenders being defeated Wentworth MP Dave Sharma, unsuccessful Gilmore candidate Andrew Constance and thwarted Warringah preselection hopeful Jane Buncle. Tony Abbott has ruled out a suggestion by former Victorian state party president Michael Kroger that the position should go to him, although Dennis Shanahan of The Australian today reports that would be open to a lower house seat if it had “overwhelming support” in the party.
• Matthew Knott of the Sydney Morning Herald reported on Thursday that moderates were urging Marise Payne to create a second New South Wales Senate vacancy by retiring shortly after the March state election, potentially to be succeeded by Fiona Martin, who lost her seat of Reid at the federal election last year; Gisele Kapterian, former staffer to Julie Bishop and Michaelia Cash; or Maria Kovacic, state party president and unsuccessful federal candidate for Parramatta. Dennis Shanahan of The Australian reported today that Payne has “told colleagues she does not intend to retire”.
• Lydia Lynch of The Australian reported yesterday on a “push within Queensland’s Liberal National Party to bring former Senator Amanda Stoker back into the fold”, with the suggestion that she might topple lower-profile incumbent Paul Scarr to gain the top position on the Senate ticket at the next election. With the second place on the ticket reserved for the Nationals, and no suggestion in the report that a position might become available in the lower house, the only other possibility would be for her to again take third place. This was a losing proposition for her at last year’s election and would also require her to depose an incumbent, in this case ideological fringe dweller Gerard Rennick.
Cronus,
Regarding East Timor,
Are we actually disputing that Indonesia, following US orders, accepted the UN peacekeeping force ?
Here’s a quote from President Habibie from September 12 1999, the same day that Clinton announced that the US would suspend military cooperation.
Indonesia buckled mere hours after Clinton said the word.
I do like the way , they get excited in the robodebt royal commission, when they have caught someone out in not telling the truth
The witness stand is being covered with Hurman remains!
https://theconversation.com/call-the-crime-in-kashmir-by-its-name-ongoing-genocide-120412
Ven doesnt agree with the premise apparently. The facts dont agree with Ven.
“The minister for Indigenous Australians, Linda Burney, says the Northern Territory government responded too slowly to the spike in crime in Alice Springs, and she’s argued a voice to parliament would have prevented a problem escalating to a crisis.”
It’s going to be interesting to vote “Yes” and then test this assumption offered by Linda Burney. One would expect that with a Voice, problems in Aboriginal communities would be detected and solved faster and more efficiently.
Voting “No” will definitely not help!
Shellbell
Normally I’d agree RE sportspeople, but I’m actually really hoping Craig Foster gets the gong. His work on refugees and political prisoners has been exemplary
BK says:
Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:31 pm
BK do you get the sense that following RC handing down its findings Scott Morrison will have a repeat of the Engadine Incident ?
Senator Thorpe is the Spokesperson for the Greens on Indigenous Affairs.
As such, she is the official voice of the Greens on Indigenous Affairs.
Mr Bandt might wish to clarify the following statements:
1. The Voice is a ‘joke’.
2. The Voice is a ‘waste’.
3. We are at War.
In the absence of a democratically chosen Voice, who has legitimacy to negotiate the Indigenous side?
If the federal Parliament is illegitimate, who do the Greens think should negotiate a treaty on the non-Indigenous side?
If the federal Constitution is illegitimate, how is a treaty to be validated or ratified by the non-Indigenous side?
If the federal Parliament ratifies a treaty, what is to stop a future federal Parliament from disavowing the treaty?
If the Voice goes down, is it the case that any follow-up treaty negotiated by the Government will only be legitimate as a Labor Government treaty?
Do the Greens support Thorpe’s ‘War’? What is his advice for fighting it?
Sceptic
He has been buying up a lot of diapers lately, I hear.
“nathsays:
Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:28 pm
Alpo says:
January 25th was our last day of peace in this country….. That implies that pre-colonialism Australia was a peaceful place (not a comparatively less aggressive/violent place).
_________________
That really is a pathetic argument. But I assume you also take issue with the Redfern Speech when Keating said ‘we committed the murders’. If only you were there to jump up and point out that murders also occurred in pre-colonial Australia too.”
Dear me. First, you accuse me of writing a “pathetic argument” without explaining why. Then you quote Keating’s Redfern Speech: “we committed the murders”. Keating was obviously referring to colonial Australia, he wasn’t comparing pre- and post-colonial Australia. I jumped at Lidia Thorpe’s tweet, not at Keating’s statement!!
I am not sure where are you going to go from here, but keep posting if you want to.
Hurman being slaughtered.
Sceptic
From memory, Morrison was excused at the end of his previous evidence. I wonder if the Commissioner would be prepared to suffer hearing from him again. Didn’t she set him some “homework” re his interpretation of one of the relevant acts?
Boerwar
Slaughtered earlier. Now being serially dismembered.
BK
He should just say, ‘I agree’ and get it over with.
I know exactly what you are talking about Rossmcg.
I worked in a tiny but specialised part of a very large organisation. Managers selected “yes men” to be team leaders.
Cost savings was their only mantra. No instruction from on high was ever challenged. Consequently the waste that flowed from inappropriate directives to our part of the business regularly amounted to 6 figure sums. My favourite passtime was writing reports that highlighted this. It turned out to be quite lucrative. “Get out of sight and out of mind and just do what you have to”.
Mr Hurman, don’t take on Her Honour. It won’t turn out well for you!
Richard Marles said “We want to see a region at peace, not in conflict”
Well what a Pollyanna view of the word. ‘At Peace’ what a joke. To think that human conflict will suddenly end with a few international agreements.
This helps no one.
Player One @ Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:19 pm
“Andrew_Earlwood @ #1771 Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 – 2:54 pm
“As I ponder this, I wonder what point ‘treaty’ really has to either reconciliation or progress for FN people. It seems to actually be a slap to the face sort of a concept when one considers its abuse in other colonial contexts.”
How about we just forget what the Uluru Statement actually says First Nations people want, and just give them what we decide they deserve. If they behave.”
Lidia Thorpe? Is that you?
Hurman: “Sorry, I may be misunderstanding.”
Commissioner: “Well, I don’t understand you. I don’t understand how you could refer to the 2014 advice as being concerned with the position where there was ‘full information’.”
Technically January 18th was the last day of peace, that’s when the ships landed at Botany Bay, January 21st was the day the first fleet landed at Port Jackson and 5 days later they decided to raise the flag.
There are plenty of dates in Australia’s history that have more meaning than the “oops, we landed in a swamp, lets move over here as this place is somewhat better so let’s raise a flag” day.
As for the argument that various First Nations fought, so what, of course they did. That’s irrelevant, the British don’t get to invade an entire continent and claim it for themselves. Claiming Australia is akin to claiming all of Europe and just as ridiculous.
Not to mention that the British did so illegally (that’s what Mabo proved). The British COULD have declared war on each individual nation, conquered that nation and got a treaty signed but they couldn’t be bothered to even understand the basic culture and social structures of the First Nations and just dismissed them as “aboriginals” without bothering to give them even a semblance of a cultural identity.
nath says:
Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:47 pm
This helps no one.
Better than a PM with long arms scratching his scrotum while wearing red Speedo’s
Hurman: “I’m confused now”
Bloody hell…
‘I don’t know if you want to pursue this, but, ah…’
better then the liberals well at least marles in defence is
‘The last big tribal fight, war really, was fought at the mouth of the Tambo River between Billy Thorpe’s tribe and the South Gippsland mob, the Port Alberts. It lasted all day and right into the evening. How it come about was the other tribe had got to the Tambo food hunting and they decided to swim over for swan egging, but word soon reached the Swan Reach Aborigines and they got together, the men and women too and off they went with their war weapons, barbs, spears, waddy sticks and killer boomerangs. The killer boomerang is sharp on both ends, the game boomerang were shaped different and spun around and around and come back. ‘
‘….Grandfather told me ‘it wasn’t ‘til dusk ‘til our people come back where we was, still in that ‘ollow log and we was howlin’ and yellin’ and it was old Kitty Johnson and Dick Cooper who found us. My parents were both dead in the battle and so were George’s. Kitty took us and reared us up.’ ‘
From ‘You Are What You Make Yourself to Be: The Story of a Victorian Aboriginal Family, 1842 to 1980. ‘
In relation to Morrison’s culpability for Robodebt he may well have been an enthusiastic promoter of it in early 2015 but had moved from Social Security by September, when the scheme was still developing
After that the public servants were running it.
The shit didn’t really hit the fan till much later when Porter and Tudge and Robert were running it and defending it and threatening to send people to jail.
That’s not to excuse Morrison in anyway.
This is just excruciating. He really is all at sea.
Any better and this guy Hurman would be utterly hopeless!
nath
‘Well what a Pollyanna view of the word. ‘At Peace’ what a joke. To think that human conflict will suddenly end with a few international agreements.’
But Australia was ‘at peace’ prior to Jan 26 1788!
The ticklish legitimacy problem for Thorpe is that tribal boundaries were not fixed at 1788 or previously, or subsequently.
They changed according to Indigenous warfare outcomes.
In other words, if there were sovereignty impacts arising from Indigenous warfare then it follows that…
Of course it’s fine to call modern Australia ‘a peaceful society’. Probably every PM does it. Despite all the murders, violence and conflict.
But call Aboriginal Australia a ‘peaceful society’. Well that is too much for some people.
Rossmcg
It would seem that there had been continuous, unrelenting downward pressure to deliver the “savings”.
Point taken Ross.
I think Tudge’s name popped briefly into some evidence this morning. Next week could be “enlightening”.
Edit: punctuation
BK
He is clicking his biro in quiet desperation. He is possibly suffering nearly as much as some of the victims he played his small part in driving to their suicides.
Russia will forever be outcast from anything to do with Europe.
As far as I’m concerned Europe should build a wall and make Russia pay for it 😛
Alpo @ #1755 Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 – 2:31 pm
Yeah, we all have weapons of war laying around, ready to go to fight in an instant…
Rossmcg says:
Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:52 pm
In relation to Morrison’s culpability for Robodebt he may well have been an enthusiastic promoter of it in early 2015 but had moved from Social Security by September, when the scheme was still developing
After that the public servants were running it.
The shit didn’t really hit the fan till much later when Porter and Tudge and Robert were running it and defending it and threatening to send people to jail.
That’s not to excuse Morrison in anyway.
________________________________________
At the heart of all of this there are two fundamental themes:
1. The complete lack of empathy with recipients of social security benefits and the lives they lead making ends meet. This lack of empathy is driven downwards from the successive ministers in charge of social security and the government as a whole between 2013 and 2022 to the senior ranks of the bureaucracy – especially Human Services.
2. A cowed Public Service across the board where unwelcome advice would lead to powerful career limiting outcomes and, conversely, where very welcome advice would lead to career advancement.
Aaron newton @ #1825 Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 – 3:51 pm
I like the emphasis on modern day defence weaponry.
But Marles makes me very nervous at the best of times, so lets see what actually eventuates.
BK
I don’t doubt that. Department secretary and deputy secretary chasing their bonuses would do that.
That may have been happening after Morrison moved on.
And I wish someone would relieve witness of his pen lest he stabs himself
nath @ #1832 Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 – 3:54 pm
It’s the sense of white supremacy that has held back reconciliation all these yrs.
Grattan on the Alice, the Voice and the views of Scrymgour.
https://citynews.com.au/2023/alice-springs-crime-crisis-is-impeding-voice-debate/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=canberra-daily-today-s-news-today_7801
Hey, Integrity, it must be time for your one line baits.
How about S3, Thorpe, the Xbench? xyz needs to be managed out?
Now the Hurman remains are being rendered.
The Warrowen massacre was an apparent mass killing of Bunurong people by a group of Kurnai [Thorpe’s people] people in the vicinity of present-day Brighton, Victoria, Australia. It is dated to the early 1830s, close in time to the founding of Melbourne. The killing was recorded separately several years later by William Thomas and George Augustus Robinson, based on testimony from Aboriginal sources. Thomas stated that at least 60 people had been killed. According to Robinson, the massacre contributed to the end of an entire Bunurong clan, the Yowengerre, allowing a Kurnai clan to take over their territory
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrowen_massacre
Greggery lifts his eyebrows expressively in response to yet another ‘I don’t recall’.
No doubt Christian Porter will be putting on the tears when its time for him to appear at the royal commission
zoomster says:
Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 3:58 pm
Yeah, we all have weapons of war laying around, ready to go to fight in an instant…
_____
So you think the warlike Aboriginal Australia has been replaced by a peaceful modern Australia. You’ve made your position clear.
There is an excellent documentary I watched a few year ago called “The Pacific: In the Wake of Captain Cook” narrated by Sam Neill where in one episode it’s described why Cook was able to beach and repair the Endeavour.
It seems by shear luck they decided to repair the ship on a beach between two nations.
The beach was a sacred site where fighting was forbidden, essentially it was the place where representatives of both nations would meet to resolve problems.
To say that the Aboriginals fought each other therefore there wasn’t peace is facetious, they had laws and systems in place to avoid war where possible like any civilised society.
Hurman’s examination examples two things:
1. The extent to which the Cth public service has been politicised under four Tory governments, starting with Howard; and
2. The almost complete disdain the Tories have for those in receipt of social security benefits.
https://twitter.com/SquizzSTK/status/1618107039087210503
Strong words from Chalmers.
Bookmark this presser and let’s see what eventuates….