Not a creature was stirring

Chisholm and Kooyong court ruling imminent; comparison of American and Australian political attitudes; and a merry Christmas to all.

At what’s normally a dull time for electoral news, the Federal Court has decided to beat Santa to the punch by announcing its judgement in the challenges to the Chisholm and Kooyong results at 2:15pm today. I’ll add a dedicated post when that happens, but for the time being, here’s the latest thread for general political discussion, it being long past time for a new one.

Two other items of news I can think to mention: the United States Studies Centre has published a report that compares survey results on political attitudes in Australia and the United States, which reaches the intuitive conclusions that Australians are both less conservative and less polarised by partisanship; and GhostWhoVotes offers a neat presentation of the states’ House of Representatives seat entitlements based on current population numbers, six months out from the final determination.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

782 comments on “Not a creature was stirring”

Comments Page 4 of 16
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  1. Lynchpin
    says:
    Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 11:12 am
    “Will Morrison see a hit to trustworthiness or empathy?”
    No.
    _______________________________
    The Newspoll attributes that may shift are ‘caring for people’, trustworthiness and ‘strong and decisive’. I would expect some erosion somewhere.

  2. The tragedy commenced in the 19th century. We’re about 1/3 of the way into it, or maybe more. The end of the tragedy is clearly visible now. But we are not going to change it even though we have both the foresight and the means to do so. Our predecessors, the current actors and our successors all feature in this tragedy, which will culminate in despair. This is plain as can be.

  3. I’ve been pretty much of a Shane Fitzsimmons fan around these pages of late, but I think he’s got it wrong on compensation for volunteer firies.

    He says that paying the volunteers is against the “spirit of volunteerism”. Maybe he just means paying them outright wages for their time. Perhaps he’s thinking it would add an extra layer of administrative red tape and OHS complexity. It’s possible he believes that paying volunteers would contaminate the public spiritedness with which they offer their time. Or that increasing the wages budget would just rob the fire-fighting budget (absent an overall budget increase). He might just think that it’s as not his fight to pursue, politically. Is he feuding with the volunteers association? Is he protecting some personal feifdom?

    Whatever the reason for his rather emphatic opposition to paying volunteers, he has to balance this against the fact that he might run out of them if this emergency goes on, as is possible, until April.

  4. SK:’Why do these thugs rise to the top in the Liberal/National parties? Why do populations keep voting for egomaniac mercenaries and their snake oil? Was Plato right about the descent into tyranny?’

    It is because a proportion of people are thugs that are gripped by hate.

    Last night I witnessed contributors on this blog act like thugs. Getting stuck into BW as though it was some sort of stoning event, where they seemed to egg themselves on to see how low they could go. Name calling was the least of it, comparison to Bolt etc., straw win created so more stones could be thrown a them. I think they gained their courage (as all thugs do) because BW was not responding on the blog (maybe he was not around but thugs would perceive the none response as weakness).

    That is why people vote for thugs, they are thugs themselves.

  5. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/24/australians-arent-asking-for-miracles-from-scott-morrison-were-begging-for-leadership#comment-136890483

    GazzaFromGrongGrong
    32m ago
    12 13

    The fireys “want to be there”,
    or that’s what ScoMo said
    in one more burst of nonsense
    while raging bushfires spread,
    as if the sacrifices
    of people on the ground
    can just be understated
    so he can swan around
    and say he’s not a plumber,
    as if that mitigates
    his pointless empty gestures
    and bubble-talk debates.

    Instead, he could take action
    to help them and assist
    to mitigate exhaustion
    and all the things they’ve missed,
    so here’s the simple message…
    support the volunteers
    with money and resources
    that ease the stress and tears,
    for God’s sake get things moving,
    don’t let the country bleed,
    just stop procrastinating
    and damn well bloody lead!

  6. PeeBee @ #155 Tuesday, December 24th, 2019 – 11:27 am

    SK:’Why do these thugs rise to the top in the Liberal/National parties? Why do populations keep voting for egomaniac mercenaries and their snake oil? Was Plato right about the descent into tyranny?’

    It is because a proportion of people are thugs that are gripped by hate.

    Last night I witnessed contributors on this blog act like thugs. Getting stuck into BW as though it was some sort of stoning event, where they seemed to egg themselves on to see how low they could go. Name calling was the least of it, comparison to Bolt etc., straw win created so more stones could be thrown a them. I think they gained their courage (as all thugs do) because BW was not responding on the blog (maybe he was not around but thugs would perceive the none response as weakness).

    That is why people vote for thugs, they are thugs themselves.

    Let me guess who it was? Nah, I don’t have to.

  7. Lynchpin @ #148 Tuesday, December 24th, 2019 – 11:12 am

    “Will Morrison see a hit to trustworthiness or empathy?”

    No.

    Though, as it was pointed out by, I think it was Jacqui Maley in her column last Sunday, the Essential Report on leadership characteristics already has Scott Morrison at the lowest level of trustworthiness in the electorate of any new Prime Minister.

  8. Cat

    Attacking BW for his narrative is not behaving like thugs.

    It’s calling out his narrative. All the stronger for his repeated propaganda that gets people’s backs up.

    Like ending it to Bolts propaganda is just recognition of fellow travellers.

  9. BB
    Yep. Old arrangements are not necessarily going to continue to work for new and ever evolving global warming realities.
    The bean counters are probably hoping that there will not be a reprise next summer and that it will all go away by itself.

  10. How typical of Labor stooges to ruin a good thing and start talking about Morrison’s children! Morons.

    Morrison himself brought up the girls several times, as the sole reason for the secrecy surrounding the holiday and its destination.

    If he’s going to use them to justify keeping the country in the dark in the middle of a national crisis requiring him to stay at home (which, by the way, he now admits is the case), then it’s fair enough to ask where they were.

    Were they even WITH their parents? If not, there goes his justification for the secrecy (to surprise the girls) and even the holiday itself, plus all that “plumber on a Friday afternoon” horseshit he came up with yesterday. If the family was not together for a “family” holiday, did he desert the nation just to have some cuddle time with his wife?

    The Girls are central to Morrison’s justifications for key aspects of his time away from duty, so important that he took leave from a national emergency to please them, while other parents fought the fires, gave up their own holidays and list their homes. Some parents even died fighting those fires.

    I’d say Morrison’s daughters are an integral part of the story, the story HE chose to weave around his absence.

  11. C@t:’Let me guess who it was? Nah, I don’t have to’

    It was not one person it was gang of them. They were very brave as BW was not around. I am not worried about BW as I am sure he would have taken care of them in his usual intellectual and logical style if he had been around.

  12. @Watts_Writes

    Stop giving fossil fuel companies subsidies & tax breaks. Give to volunteers fighting fires that will burn for months instead. Actually care for people. https://twitter.com/p_hannam/status/1209179222930903040

    @p_hannam

    (Has to be addressed) ‘Out of control’: Volunteer firefighters demand income support, equipment https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/out-of-control-volunteer-firefighters-demand-income-support-equipment-20191223-p53mhb.html via @smh


  13. Steve777 says:
    Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 11:21 am

    It is interesting to note that SA has very little coal, unlike Vic, NSW and Qld.

    Victoria has shit coal and are exiting.

    One of the Victorian Labor initiatives was to replace all the lights with more efficient models. Much more effective that a convoy of Gas guzzlers to Queensland.

    Yet according to the little protect party, the little environmental wreckers, the junior anti Labor party, Labor and Liberals are same-same.

  14. @TripleJay58 tweets

    Can someone find me Chris Uhlmann’s phone number, please. He will want to hear about this straight away. Thanks. #auspol #ClimateEmergency #renewables
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/24/south-australias-clean-energy-shift-brings-lowest-power-prices-on-national-grid-audit-finds?CMP=share_btn_tw

    @mefergus tweets

    I think @CUhlmann has been busy briefing @realDonaldTrump on the danger of having wind. https://twitter.com/triplejay58/status/1209227669054902272

  15. The claim that BW is similar to Bolt is not only insulting to BW, it is just preposterous.

    BW is a voice against racism and for both social justice and real action in the environment.

    He does not stock Green ware. This is another admirable characteristic.

  16. RI

    Yet here you are with Bolt arguing the Greens are against the environment and useless and their is no point voting for them.

    The exact same conclusion as Bolt. From same false premise that protest and speaking out fails every time. We have to have Quiet Australians.

  17. The nub of my question was whether Ms Thunberg has made a practical difference in terms of a reduction in CO2 emissions. It is a reasonable question, IMO.

    But, for some, raising this question seems to have been a sacrilege against some religion or other.

    There were some good discussions around the topic, IMO. There was some abuse.

    It seems to me that the Bludger weight of opinion is that Ms Thunberg has so far not made any difference to CO2 emissions but that peeps hope that she will or might make such a difference some time in the future. The notion that she has dumbed down the debate and provided a useful lightning rod for the fossileers did not attract a whole lot of support. Some seem to think that dumbing down the debate is just what we all need to do.

    I raised COP25 with intent in the context of Ms Thunberg’s global efforts. COP25 is an unmitigated disaster – far bigger than the Drought and the Megafires put together, IMO. Many of the various discussions on Bludger, and elsewhere, appear to be ignoring the consequences of COP25. Except for some ritualistic beltings of Taylor and Morrison.

  18. guytaur says:
    Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 11:43 am
    RI
    Yet here you are with Bolt arguing the Greens are against the environment and useless and their is no point voting for them.

    Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

  19. Those struggling to queue for prawns for Christmas might take note.

    sortius @sortius
    ·
    4m
    Honestly, I have no idea why anyone would buy prawns on Christmas Eve. You don’t need to buy them fresh, ever. All prawns are frozen at the moment of catch to not allow stress hormones to develop in them. Just buy your prawns raw and frozen, then cook them yourself, it’s not hard

  20. BB
    Yep.
    I noted the other day that Morrison had politically weaponized his daughters, repeatedly.
    The notion that they are STILL out of political bounds is ludicrous.

  21. I argue – along with BW – that the Greens should be dissolved because they have become an obstacle to progressive action on the environment.

    Bolt despises everything and everyone to do with environmental action. If he knew me he would despise me too.

    Bolt has a sublimated death wish. But he’s hardly unique in that. There are plenty of people around who would prefer to end it all rather than to revise their opinions and values.

    I subscribe to life. I fear it is in peril.

  22. Boerwar

    COP25 is an unmitigated disaster

    My amateur opinion is that Greta Thunberg is what is now called “an influencer”. The groundswell of revolt in her supporters will take a long time to affect the real controllers of politics, unfortunately.

    It’s worth doing, obviously, but it may still be too late.

  23. More results of denying science

    @NPR tweets

    An Austin public health official attributed the city’s first case of measles in more than 20 years to the anti-vaccination movement. “We are seeing quite a remarkable trend across the United States in relation to measles cases,” he said. (@KUT)
    https://n.pr/34M4oIk

  24. “The nub of my question was whether Ms Thunberg has made a practical difference in terms of a reduction in CO2 emissions. It is a reasonable question, IMO.”

    That is not a reasonable question, it is a ridiculous one. She is a 16 year old girl who is helping to bring awareness and mobilise people against the global entrenched forces of the coal/gas lobby and their apologists.
    This is a very long term project. You can’t have a 6 month KPI, declare it a failure, and start abuse. This is going to take years, if not decades to turn around.

  25. guytaur says:
    Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 11:46 am

    FredNK

    Not when the joint point is the Greens made no contribution on the environment its not right. Its as wrong as you can get.

    They haven’t, it just the way it is. A little protest party that has made it more difficult to get environmental action. They have destroyed the environmental movement as it was and replaced it with a party that dreams up anti Labor stunts.

    A complete and utter waste of space.

  26. FredNK

    You argue Labor made a difference. Well the Greens voted in Julia Gillard to power. Thus by your own logic the Greens achieved something on the environment.

    Just by having Labor in power not the LNP.

    This is just a stupid bit of propaganda from the coal lobby.

    All part of we can’t act on climate due to coal jobs narrative that the rich want coal workers to fall for.

  27. FredNK

    You argue Labor made a difference. Well the Greens voted in Julia Gillard to power. Thus by your own logic the Greens achieved something on the environment.

    Just by having Labor in power not the LNP.

    This is just a stupid bit of propaganda from the coal lobby.

    All part of we can’t act on climate due to coal jobs narrative that the rich want coal workers to fall for.

  28. At this time of the year, media begins to swamp us with “this was the year that was”.

    Frankly it was such a horrible year that I have no intention of living through it again. Go away.


  29. guytaur says:
    Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 11:52 am
    RI
    No matter how you whine about it the Greens are not going to give Labor an alibi to open new coal mines.

    It is nothing more than the latest anti Labor green stunt. It is all one can expect from the Greens, nothing more and nothing less.

  30. I don’t give a rats about the Greens and coal. The best thing for Labor to do is to distance itself from the Greens. The easiest way to do this is to authorise Adani. The Greens will scream. Good. I want to hear their cries.

    On another note, the failure of Greta to produce a favourable result for Paris at COP25 says a lot about the powerful. It says nothing about the powerless.

    We need power. We don’t have it. We’re not gonna get it the way things are going. Despair awaits.

  31. “The nub of my question was whether Ms Thunberg has made a practical difference in terms of a reduction in CO2 emissions. It is a reasonable question, IMO.”

    It is a stupid question. Because there is no answer to it, nor anyway of knowing the answer.
    It’s designed to stir up trouble and make yourself the centre of attention.
    You pick a stupid argument then argue using boring rhetorical tricks to make yourself feel better.
    You’ll never admit when you are wrong about something, so why would we argue with you about it.

  32. Torchbearer

    I beg to differ.

    Ms Thunberg was a leader and front person for various events and activities that fed into COP25. She attended COP25 amidst much hoopla on a renewable energy yacht.

    Had COP25 been a modest or large step in the right direction, Ms Thunberg would doubtless have been lauded and, IMO, justifiably so. But we went backwards at COP25. Badly.

    One of the logical difficulties Ms Thunberg’s supporters seem to have is separating practical CO2 emissions reduction outputs from Ms Thunberg’s inputs. We need outputs, aka, serious CO2 emissions reductions.

    As for referring to her age, why be age-ist? As for referring to her gender, why be sexist?

    Ms Thunberg either delivers or she does not.


  33. guytaur says:
    Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 11:58 am

    FredNK

    You argue Labor made a difference. Well the Greens voted in Julia Gillard to power. Thus by your own logic the Greens achieved something on the environment.

    Just by having Labor in power not the LNP.

    This is just a stupid bit of propaganda from the coal lobby.

    All part of we can’t act on climate due to coal jobs narrative that the rich want coal workers to fall for.

    One lower house member voted to support a non Labor preferred solution, which Labor is still paying for. A solution that has made it more difficult to make real progress. Only a party that wallows in anti labor Green stunts would consider it a success.

    One lower house member and we had the anti environmentalist firefox call it a Green/Labor government. Trying hard to make it more difficult to recover from the period when Labor got screwed by that single lower house member.

  34. The nub of my question was whether Ms Thunberg has made a practical difference in terms of a reduction in CO2 emissions. It is a reasonable question, IMO.

    I think the answer is: “It’s a bit too early to tell, but since nothing else has worked, and as kids need heros that aren’t coal-loving daggy dads, Thunberg’s worth a try.”

  35. FredNK

    All excuses because you can’t stand the fact that coal is toxic to life as we know it on planet earth. You want your beloved coal mine open.

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