We seem to be going into an ill-timed poll drought, so to keep things ticking over, here’s a post focusing on Senate preselection news. Please note there’s a post below this one on this Saturday’s Wagga Wagga by-election, which is developing into a fairly interesting contest.
• Queensland Labor’s state conference determined its Senate preselection on the weekend, having been hurried along by a national executive concerned the Liberal leadership crisis might bring on an early election. In doing so it bypassed a vote that was granted to the party membership under rule changes in 2013. The top position has gone to Nita Green, a former staffer to Senator Murray Watt and the favoured candidate of the CFMMEU and United Voice. The position is reserved to the Left, and is being vacated with the retirement of Claire Moore.
Green’s ascendancy has been contentious because party rules reserve the position for a regional representative and she lives in Brisbane, though she says she will move if elected. Supporters of rival Left candidate Tania Major, a Cairns-based indigenous youth advocate and protege of Cape York leader Noel Pearson, have further complained of being ambushed by a process for the factional ballot in which a three-day nominations period was followed immediately by the start of voting.
The second place on the ticket, which is reserved to the dominant Labor Forum sub-faction of the Right, has been retained by incumbent Chris Ketter. The cancellation of the party membership vote saw off any threat from rival nominee Pat O’Neill, former army major and candidate for Brisbane in 2016, although he was reportedly unlikely to win in any case. Number three goes to Frank Gilbert, a former Mackay councillor and candidate for Dawson in 2016, and a member of the Old Guard sub-faction of the Right.
• Matthew Denholm of The Australian reports Tasmanian Labor’s union establishment has again lined up against Lisa Singh for Senate preselection, undeterred by the success of a below-the-line voting campaign in overturning her demotion at the 2016 election. Singh will presumably dominate the party member component of the vote, but is reportedly unlikely to do any better than the loseable third position. This is because the dominant Left wants places for an incumbent, Carol Brown, and John Short, the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union official for whom Singh was relegated in 2016, while the Right is defending incumbent Catryna Bilyk.
• Tasmania’s Liberals are also conducting their Senate preselection vote on Saturday, and there are suggestions they too may repeat unhappy history from 2016. Richard Colbeck is again under pressure from conservative forces associated with Senator Eric Abetz, despite having almost matched Lisa Singh’s feat after being dumped to number five in 2016. He found his way back in the recount that followed Stephen Parry’s disqualification in November, and was promoted last week to the outer ministry, making him the only Tasmanian at that level of seniority. Brett Worthington at the ABC reports conservatives want the top position to go to Brett Whiteley, veteran of three winning and three losing campaigns at both federal and state level in Braddon, or alternatively to a woman. Further demotion beyond that would be particularly remarkable for Colbeck, as he is the only one of the four Tasmanian Liberal Senators facing re-election, the others having scored six-year terms. The other nominees for the preselection were detailed in an earlier instalment.
‘C@tmomma says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 5:58 pm
Boerwar @ #3892 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 5:56 pm
‘nath says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 5:54 pm
Sad to see Bill Hayden, one of our most prominent atheists, weaken to the fears and frailties of old age and make pascal’s wager.’
If it is a comforting way to meet death, why not?
That’s as may be but it’s an essentially gutless move at the end of the day.’
Why? Within his lights, his decision may be courageous.
I have my views about how I am going to meet death but am acutely aware that come the time I might change my mind entirely.
Late Riser
Playing “devil’s advocate”, but why should an atheist not enjoy membership of a church? Has anyone asked him why he chose to be baptised?
_______________________________
I’m not sure the RC Church accept baptisms based upon a desire for community. He is obviously no longer an atheist and believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and rose from the dead 2000 years ago and now awaits his imminent return. Which is now awfully long delayed considering Jesus attested he would return for Judgement Day within the lifetime of his followers. But what’s a couple of thousand years in the grand scheme of things?
Confessions
Delighted to hear about your mother’s efforts. They are so very appreciated.
As noted to Boerwar above, I very much would like to be proved wrong, but my sense remains – despite the clear expressions of concern – that Wentworth will stay Liberal.
Boerwar says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 5:56 pm
‘nath says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 5:54 pm
Sad to see Bill Hayden, one of our most prominent atheists, weaken to the fears and frailties of old age and make pascal’s wager.’
If it is a comforting way to meet death, why not?
________________
I felt sad and disappointed that Bill Hayden made the wager also, but each person must make their own decisions, so I am with BW in this instance.
Rex Douglas @ #3889 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 5:54 pm
Stop Brexit before it’s too late?
For the ‘older’ Brisvegas peeps a step back in to the ‘good old days’.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/sep/08/go-betweens-lindy-morrison-brisbane-in-the-late-70s-was-fast-and-furious
a r @ #3363 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:05 pm
Would you say that’s a political motivation ?
As an atheist I’m not offended or bothered at all by Hayden’s decision. To each their own.
As a committed secularist I’m of the view that the decision to embrace religion should be a purely personal one, and not something directed or influenced by govt. Again, to each their own.
And lastly, as a human being I can sympathise with Hayden’s lapse. We are, after all, only human.
Confessions
Spot on.
Eunoe:
The wealthy side of my family, staunchly Liberal voting simply held their noses during the Abbott years and voted Liberal, despite personally finding what the party represented under Abbott to be regressive and the antithesis of their values. So yes, I can see Liberals in Wentworth doing the same thing at the upcoming by-election. But wouldn’t it be good if a solid independent candidate with the right appeal to Liberal voters gave them a red hot run for their money?!
Confession:
Agreed. I’m not remotely remotely religious, myself (though I’m not strictly athiest, either – even that requires too much belief for me), and have zero time for those who use their beliefs as excuses to control and abuse and discriminate against others, but if someone finds peace and comfort in their faith, then good for them.
Boerwar @ #3898 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 5:59 pm
Confessions @ #3908 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:12 pm
Lot’s of people are “Bohemians” until they confront mortality because of frailty or illness.
Then they get scared!
Rex Douglas @ #3907 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:09 pm
Only to the extent that being the only sane person in the asylum is also a political matter. Otherwise it sounds more like common-sense to me.
Could you imagine how boring the Christian heaven would be. Imagine after the first few thousand years. Is there anything interesting going on there? There have been so few accounts of heaven that it cannot really be described even by Christians. Harp music maybe, lots of praising God no doubt. Any sex drugs and rock and roll? probably not. And all the fun people are in Hell anyway. Bah. Hell is probably a rollicking good time. Send me there.
‘nath says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 6:24 pm
Could you imagine how boring the Christian heaven would be. Imagine after the first few thousand years.
False premise. The Christian Heaven is timeless.
Rupert Murdoch is a Catholic, so they probably won’t even have decent internet in Heaven. Just shitty Fox News. 🙂
Check out @roweafr’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/roweafr/status/1038701270456983552?s=09
David Rowe Sunday special
False premise. The Christian Heaven is timeless.
How do you know, Boerwar?
Mari @ #3917 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:27 pm
Well yes, GG and the human in me understands that and doesn’t see it as letting the atheist side down or whatever.
I can’t say what I’d do if faced with my own frailty or mortality, but any time I feel the need to seek comfort from the fact that there is something bigger than me, bigger than us as a species or the planet we live on I step outside at night and look skywards. If it’s cloudy I watch youtubes of raging oceans or videos from space missions.
Institutional religion repels me and I can’t see myself ever gravitating towards it regardless of the circumstances. But if someone finds solace or comfort or whatever from it, so long as they aren’t pushing their views onto others, what is the harm?
All this garbage about truck delays etc is just frothing at the mouth and an attempt to sway public opinion re brexit.
Now let us think a second. As of NOW trucks come in from France or boats at the ports. They are loaded with good. Presumably someone checks the manifests and says yep containers (or truck loads) a,b,f,p and r are from the Eu – no duty, but containers c,d and j are from China – duty to be paid, etc.
This MUST happen now. So the only differenming that manifests are submitted which I assume they are.
OK passengers on boats and trains and ircraft may be a bit more compicated but presumably the UK can gradually introduce checks eg continue to wave through peole with EU passports for a while and then gradually start to check eg start to direct people through once the staff is in place.
They could EVEN put someone on board a plane and check out passenger documents mid flight. People who have has passport visa checks are given a token or pass or some such.
I do agree that the Irish border is a bit of an issue.
‘C@tmomma says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 6:27 pm
False premise. The Christian Heaven is timeless.
How do you know, Boerwar?’
It is so by Roman Catholic definition. Other Christian religions may beg to differ.
nath @ #3915 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:24 pm
Nath
all that being proding with burning pokers would not be fun and being burnt alive may be a problem.
Confessions @ #3920 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:28 pm
It’s more basic than that.
Who is going to clean your mess as you die.
It’s easy to convert at the end.
‘DaretoTread says:
Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 6:32 pm
All this garbage about truck delays etc is just frothing at the mouth and an attempt to sway public opinion re brexit. Now let us think a second.’
Excellent suggestion. It is never too late to start.
all that being proding with burning pokers would not be fun and being burnt alive may be a problem.
______________
We are just hearing one side of the picture here. And trust Catholic priests to get all into proding pokers!
Hell is probably were all the fun people go, ok it may be a little warm, but we all get naked and do bourbon shots! It’s probably great, good music. Jimmy Hendrix performs every Friday Night and you can do coke with him while enjoying the hospitality of every hooker that ever lived. Don’t believe the propaganda!
nath @ #3901 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:04 pm
I am not arguing against the exclusionary principles of any group, but how would they know if he was an atheist?
Shorten at the Tas Labor Conf.
I am not arguing against the exclusionary principles of any group, but how would they know if he was an atheist?
________________
Well he may still be an atheist and just got baptised for shits and giggles but its unlikely. Lets ask him.
Greensborough Growler @ #3911 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:18 pm
Fear would seem an unconvincing claim for a committed belief.
nath @ #3928 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:40 pm
Yes. That was my point, admittedly poorly stated.
Confessions @ #3920 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:28 pm
In the case of Bill Hayden, not much harm … but remember that the Church routinely uses such “deathbed conversions” as propaganda tools. Especially when a particularly militant atheist succumbs.
Just imagine the harm that would be done if (say) Richard Dawkins were to do so.
As they say, Heaven for the climate and Hell for the company.
Catholic website says no pianos in Heaven:
__________
Most of us are involved in doing things, and a lot of us really enjoy them. I enjoy playing the piano, my wife puttering in the garden, my daughter the midwife helping deliver babies. But there won’t be any pianos, gardens needing work, ladies in labor, etc. in heaven. No harps, either – just to eliminate that stereotype.
____________
Imagine poor Beethoven and all the other great pianists wandering around looking for a piano! Oh the horror!
Boerwar @ #3922 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 6:33 pm
Other humans may beg to differ. As is their right.
Also, as was pointed out previously wrt to the Pentecostals, they cherry pick their beliefs and use different passages in the Bible as support for them. Doesn’t make them believable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kntQNeSge5s
We see comments such as rediculously high immigration and mass immigration, obviously to inflame and promote opinion
But what level is rediculous or mass?
We have a pollination of 25 Million, of a Global population of whatever, both of which figures are increasing and will continue to increase
Yes, it is a challenge to accommodate increasing population particularly given the original designs of our Cities hence grid lock and the protests of some who are displaced and relocated (at cost to the community) to accomodate projects which accommodate future requirements (and protestors always gain coverage)
When I say future requirements I am not talking about next year, I am talking about future generations
And that is the precise reason we have what we have between our ears – and political resolve
To present that Visa holders will be restricted to a certain location and specific employment – then no control over them if and when they apply to become permanent citizens is a nonsense
Simply we should welcome on the basis of contribution to our society – even so new skills are introduced
To me numbers and restricted locations and employment offers puts the cart before the horse and panders to a demographic which is uneducated
Further, we see the impact of an ageing population
Words are inserted for effect – not to contribute
We have a population of 25 Million so what level of immigration and population growth is mass or rediculous?
DTT, I recall reading that the Calais Port Authority has bought some extra acreage for truck parks so they seem to be expecting an increase in processing times and queues come Brexit. And they should probably know.
Evening all.
There was a very good article on Brexit and delays with food imports.
The UK now imports most of its food from Europe.
There is a harmonization of food quality and inspection laws.
That will go with Brexit.
Also most UK vetinarians don’t work in food quality or inspections they get workers from Europe for those roles.
Because of ‘just in time’ food importation any delays can cause major shortages.
Observer @ #3937 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 7:01 pm
Easy. Anything that results in a population we cannot sustain. Which our current levels of immigration would, if they continue.
Easy. Anything that results in a population we cannot sustain. Which our current levels of immigration would, if they continue.
_______________________
I remember reading a few years ago about proposals for a new city idea for a couple of million people to be placed, i forget where, but clearly Australia has the space for millions more, it’s just the water and arable land that we are short of!
Confessions
Yes, the silence of lots of financially and policy literate Liberals we know has been very telling for a very long time, but when push comes to shove they still knowingly, wilfully, reflexively vote Liberal.
Labor’s Tim Murray has objective credentials that would be hard to overlook for Liberal voters in Wentworth. Such haven’t been on offer from a Labor candidate in Wentworth for as long as I can remember. Sadly, however – and partly because of the long string of less credentialed Labor candidates over time – I think they will be overlooked. My view is that even a high-profile independent, likewise, will not appeal. Wentworth, especially post-Turnbull, will, I believe, want a player-to-be and preferably not a Peter King never-could-be-a-minister aberration – although, as expressed earlier, the barrel clearly is down to the dregs, so those kind of remains may be on offer. Therein lies the chance. But I still think it is slender at best. Hope I’m wrong.
Urban Wronski
@UrbanWronski
This week came the news that the economy over the past year grew faster than it has any time since 2012. It was a nice point given that the average household’s income is still at 2012 levels in real terms.
Jack Aranda @ #3939 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 7:02 pm
Seems odd to me. I suspect there may have bee a LOT of rorting going on so they will catch smugglers of all kinds.. How do you KNOW that a truck at Calais has goods form the EU and not Russia or Turkey or Iran or a non EU country. Surely they MUST already check signed manifests showing origin and destination. If not why not.
As for containers at ports they will all be from China anyway.
Dtt @ 6.34pm
I have no idea what happens with goods at present so won’t comment on that side but so far as people are concerned the UK is not part of the Schengen zone so those arriving from another EU country are subject to checks already, whichever mode of transport you use.
For example, if travelling on Eurostar from Brussels or Paris, you go through immigration at the relevant railway stations in those countries and simply step off the train in London. From experience an EU passport makes little difference – there is still a queue! There are no customs checks as the UK is, as an EU member, in the common customs area.
This, of course, will disappear with Brexit. The real problem, should there be “no deal”, is that countless regulations affecting such things as the common aviation area (the EACA) will no longer apply and there will be no flights between the UK and the EU countries. As there is a common EU open skies agreement with the US, it will also affect flights to/from there. There may not even be overflying rights so forget travel to the ME, the sub-continent and Australia. UK pilots are currently covered by EU regulations so they will have to get a new licence before the cut-off time. Intra-UK flights may therefore be affected if they cannot legally fly.
The stupidity with which the UK government is conducting talks with the EU is causing many people to think that there will be no deal – hence the sense of urgency and possibly even panic. Certainly it is looking very like there will not be a deal and thus a “hard” Brexit will ensue. There is very little time left as there has to be agreement from the other EU member states (and a couple of semi-autonomous regions).
Should there be no agreement, then the almost two year period of grace after 29 March 2019 so that the UK can adapt to the change will not be granted.
The lies that were fed to the populace prior to the referendum were contemptible. It was all made to sound so simple when, in fact, it is anything but.
In addition, there is absolutely no deal that can be agreed to which will be better than being a member of the EU. The xenophobes have cut their own throats.
P1:
I’ve no doubt institutionalised religion uses trophy atheist conversions to push their propaganda. But even so, I am still of the view that religious belief should be a private, personal matter.
Eunoe:
My own view is that Labor won’t win Wentworth, but a Malcolm-ish independent could come close to winning the seat. We shall see what the forthcoming by-election brings! 🙂
ABC giving One Nation the usual sprooking
John R® @ #3940 Sunday, September 9th, 2018 – 7:04 pm
John
If the UK has been stupid enough to import all their food then frankly Brexit is needed. When you are an island it is stupid beyond belief to be importing basic food. A blockage in the Chunnel or major fuel shortage, let along the problems if a hot war were to break out makes such a strategy
Chris Kenny tweeted earlier that he’d be dropping a hint about tonight’s Newspoll. Anyone brave (daft) enough to watch Sky After Dark seen anything from him yet?