Unpredictable Roy Morgan has violated the laws of nature by publishing a face-to-face poll on a Thursday (which surely makes more sense than its normal practice of placing it in the news cycle dead zone of late Friday). This has Labor’s two-party lead up 1.5 per cent on the rather unusual previous face-to-face poll, which was half conducted before Christmas and half after new year, from 57-43 to 58.5-41.5. The figures show a pretty straightforward exchange between the two parties on the primary vote, with Labor up two points to 45.5 per cent and the Coalition down 1.5 to 35.5 per cent and the Greens steady on 10.
Elsewhere:
• After 22 years in parliament, Bob McMullan has announced he will not contest the next election, opening a vacancy in his safe Labor ACT seat of Fraser. Susanna Dunkerley of AAP reports that McMullan denies having been pushed, “despite recently declaring his intention to stick around for another term”. Furthermore, James Massola of the Canberra Times reports Annette Ellis is under pressure to make way for new blood in the other ACT seat, Canberra. Constitutional lawyer George Williams, who recently moved to Canberra and was reportedly Kevin Rudd’s choice to contest the safe Sydney seat of Blaxland in 2007, was said to be planning a preselection challenge against McMullan last October. However, a number of reports have identified the front-runner as Nick Martin, the party’s assistant national secretary. Other possible starters named by Massola are Andrew Leigh, Australian National University economist and prolific blogger, and Chris Bourke, a dentist of Aboriginal heritage who ran in Ginninderra at the 2008 ACT election. Both are factionally unaligned, which might be an asset as they seek to succeed the similarly placed McMullan. Another Canberra Times report mentions Michael Cooney, chief-of-staff to ACT MP Andrew Barr and former adviser to Mark Latham and Kim Beazley. Those whose names were floated but have since ruled themselves out are ACT Chief Minister Jon Stanhope, Deputy Chief Minister Katy Gallagher and prime ministerial chief-of-staff Alister Jordan. Jonathan Pearlman of the Sydney Morning Herald reports an ALP national executive meeting on February 12 is likely to decide whether the candidate will be chosen locally or imposed externally.
• Samantha Maiden of The Australian reports Malcolm Turnbull is “being urged by supporters and business leaders to make a run for New South Wales premier in 2011”, firstly by replacing Peter Debnam in Vaucluse, which is located entirely within his existing electorate of Wentworth. Debnam has now confirmed what he describes as an “open secret”, that he won’t be contesting the seat at the next election. It had already been established that University of NSW deputy chancellor Gabrielle Upton would contest preselection, and numerous others have been named in connection with the seat: former John Howard chief-of-staff Arthur Sinodinos, restaurateur Peter Doyle, barrister Mark Speakman, UNSW Deputy Chancellor Gabrielle Upton and barrister Arthur Moses. Also mentioned was Paul Fletcher, before he landed his federal gig in Bradfield. There have also been suggestions, reiterated in Samantha Maiden’s report, that Joe Hockey might assume the seat with Turnbull’s support as an entree to the premiership.
• A couple of Labor national executive preselection determinations that had sliipped through the net. Michelle Rowland, a former Blacktown councillor and member of the Right faction, will contest Greenway, which the redistribution has transformed from 4.5 per cent Liberal to 5.8 per cent Labor (the sitting Liberal member, Louise Markus, will contest Macquarie). Holding Redlich lawyer Laura Smyth, whom Andrew Landeryou at VexNews links to the “Andrew Giles/Alan Griffin sub-faction of the Socialist Left”, will run in the outer eastern Melbourne seat of La Trobe, where Liberal member Jason Wood survived a 5.3 per cent swing in 2007 to hold on by 0.5 per cent. Human Services and Financial Services Minister Chris Bowen will contest McMahon, which is effectively a reincarnation of his existing abolished seat of Prospect.
• Chas Hopkins, 60-year-old former Perth Lord Mayor, has nominated for Labor preselection in the marginal Perth seat of Cowan, where the party has admitted it is struggling to find a replacement for Wanneroo mayor Jon Kelly who doesn’t share his connections with Brian Burke. Other confirmed starters are party state executive member Alex Banzic and political staffer Sam Roe.
“The irrelevant Greens used their power to block the ETS and they are a bunch of total sellouts with very radical, revolutionary, dangerous plans”.
Copy & Paste.
The Heysen Molotov
would not take notise of any thing Diogenes says about CC , maths or othrwise
he and Bob Browns Greens spent 12 mths sniping at Rudds 5% ETS being TOO LOW
then overnite today he and Bob Browns Greens flip flop that a NIL target is now OK !
he and Bob Browns Greens spent 12 mths sniping at Rudd saying CC is urgent rite now , we must leed th world at Copenhaggen , we must hav 25% and nothing less
then overnite , there is no urgensy , dawdel for 2 years , and th 25% cut is dumped for 2 years , or maybe forever DID Milne omit that bit as well as no compo bit details !
How can a Greens polisy that was holy grail one day (with Greens saying it can NOT be changed , targets must be 25%) be turfed out 100% th next day
Th never to be lowerd Greens 25% Target WAS th excuse Browns Greens twise rejected th ETS !
BUT Rudds 5% ETS is higher than Greens now NIL target , so Greens should have passd ETS in Nov
Greens hav made Howards broken non core promises look lik core promises
What Greens do not get is Rudds ETS both sets up basis to acheive mitigaton via a cap & trade with a target (which Greens do not now hav at all) and is set at 5% as econamcily repsonsible vs our tradin Partners wwho hav no target And Rudd intends to go to an electon on it
Greens know this and cynicaly dumped all CC integrity by droping th 25% cut because in an electon it would be viewd as econamic lunasy by th people onse they knew how manny jobs & business’s would get pushd offshore Instead Greens hav come up with just an eleceton gimmick only , to con public
IF CC is so urgent then to quote Greens words back , time to act is now , not defer acton 2 years , and not defer with a carbon tax with no target
But then this Greens sham CC “polisy” is only for an electon because Rudd wont agree to 2 yr wait
And to get facts corect , Rudd has ofered up to a 25% cut
Looks like a 2nd economic meltdown is brewing in the U.S
Appears the “economic troubles” are not yet over. Perhaps this is why Obama is going tits up fast.
Diogenes @ # 855 of previous post
I really don’t know whether you people don’t bother to read policy or rely on Ron to do your legwork or just don’t care about what anyone other than Labor says.
http://greens.org.au/node/5624
Thank you for your post but just a few points
I see an interim measure as being a cop out. There is not guarantee that the Parliament will be suitably balanced so as to pass an ETS in 2 years time. It is best that we try for a “real” scheme now instead of this “mickey mouse” one from the Greens
The 2 % reduction (of what was never explained) of something was what I heard on the radio. I notice that on the link above so kindly provided by you that there is no mention made of such a cut. This surly must make one wonder what Senator Milne was on about on the radio.
From the link you provided it would appear that the Greens now have a target of nil which in view of the points I raise below makes sense.
3) I think that it has been pointed out enough times that a Cap and Trade scheme simply by its nature reduces GHG. However, a carbo tax as preposed by the Greens has no such inbuilt mechanism. All polluters have to do is put up their prices to cover the carbon tax.
Now this most likely will kill any export industry that I suspect would just move to another country. Those that cant move like Power Producers will just hit the poor consumer who according to the Greens press release will be compensated. This means that we have money going around and around but really no change in our GHG except for those firms that move overseas. Even those firms who wont have their increased cost compensated in the hands of the consumer wont be affected all that mush for they will just put up there price and unless their product is very elastic you and I will just have to pay. Now I might hear you argue that the would have there price undercut by cheaper imports and this is correct, However what are the chances that the GHG emitted to produce these imported goods is not as high or higher that what was the case before the imposition of this tax.
As you can see it is just a case of a dog chasing its tail and all that happens is that jobs are cut and that GHG could go up because of less stringent environmental rules overseas. As far as I can see there is no cut to be made in the Australian or World contexst
Just a comment on you conclusion above.
If you don’t think that I can think for myself just don’t critique my posts and I will pay you a similar curtesy. However, could I point out that I am individual with my own ideas and values and would appreciate recognition of this. Could I also point out that you criticism of me could just as well apply to yourself and so I am reminded of the old saying and if I could take a bit of latitude “physician heal thyself.”
[30
TheTruthHurts………So she’s trying to get the dole?]
Surely you jest. The person in question is 80 years old. I know it is not easy to vilify an old woman who lives a solitary, meagre life and who is clearly more to be pitied than feared……..but really, the dole? You are obviously a stingy as well as a fraudulent bigot.
OzPol Tragic @ # 866 previous post
Perhaps the new Master of the Household just wants to write the sequel to Paul Gallico’s The Silent Miaow!
Thanks for you understanding but if the little blighter keeps this up I don’t think it will be too silent.
🙂 🙂 🙂
[You are obviously a stingy as well as a fraudulent bigot.]
Great so now I’m a bigot for being economically responsible.
These are the sort of cases where the bleeding hearts should be opening up their wallets and putting their money where their mouths are. I’m sick of this “oh yeah I support that as long as I don’t have to pay for it” mentality of the left. The moneys gotta come from somewhere fellas.
The Heysen Molotov
Posted Friday, January 22, 2010 at 2:14 am | Permalink
“The irrelevant Greens used their power to block the ETS and they are a bunch of total sellouts with very radical, revolutionary, dangerous plans”.
Do not post to me , then post this unatributed in next post imply i said Whoevers said it , quote there name and in FULL context
From Bloomberg……
[ The index of U.S. leading indicators increased more than anticipated in December, a sign the economy will keep growing through the first half of the year.
The New York-based Conference Board’s gauge of the outlook for the next three to six months rose 1.1 percent, the most in three months, after climbing 1 percent in November. The December gain was the ninth straight and exceeded the median forecast in a Bloomberg News survey for a 0.7 percent rise.
Fewer firings, rising stock prices and efforts by the Federal Reserve to keep short-term interest rates low boosted the leading index and may help keep Americans spending. Faster economic growth will hinge on sustained employment gains that have yet to materialize. ]
The US economy has been in recovery for nearly a year now and the labour market has finally stabilized. Employment will soon start to expand again, lifting household incomes and helping extend the expansionary cycle. The banking system is still nursing its injuries, but is well past the great crisis of 2008 and will be progressively less of a brake on the economy. It is going to take several more years, at least, for the damage caused by the crisis to be repaired. But this will happen too, step by hard-fought step.
You claim to be economically responsible…….but really you don’t want to have to say a harmless and poverty-stricken old woman should be thrown out of the country. You would just rather she made no claims on the public conscience or the budget and faded away in obscure penury. This is not about money: it is about your inability to deal with the personal and the human.
As for being a bigot, try to improve. It may not be too late, even for you.
Ratsars
#54
good post
Did not see this to you just postd it
Diogenes @ # 855 of previous post
“I really don’t know whether you people don’t bother to read policy or rely on Ron to do your legwork or just don’t care about what anyone other than Labor says.”
certainly its a put down on every PB poster who today critisised th Greens NIL Target polisy , and my name thown in defintivly not as praise but to add more insult
reckon diogenes problam is he has spent 00’s posts critisising rudds 5% as too low , and now today without warning he has to unconvinsingly defend a Greens polisy that is lower ! (in fact zero)
If he’d been consistent , seeing he’d critisised Rudd for 5% being too low then he should hav been even more cretical of th Greens nil targetl
i think Greens polisy is a cynical electon gimick , at expense of selling out properly addressin a CC mitigaton polisy in oz now , which requires a cap target & trade
Slightly OT, but just in case anyone else missed it, this is hilarious. I particularly like the Christopher Pyne reference:
http://dailylolz.lolpolz.com/2009/06/coming-soon.html
Don’t know about the US economy, so far it is a jobless recovery and those that are left with jobs have probably turned Japanese. There is a large glut of residential housing so there wont be any growth their. I gather it is business restocking run down inventory.
I was thinking about a double dip recession for them…but as far as the populace are concerned they haven’t gotten out of the first one.
[Blip
Calculated Risk beat me to this: the economists at Goldman Sachs are now predicting 5.8 percent growth in the fourth quarter. But they also say that the headline number will be highly misleading: two-thirds of the growth will be an inventory bounce, with final demand growing only 2 percent. In short, it will be a blip.
CR does miss one small trick, however: he asks when we last saw growth that high combined with rising unemployment, and says 1981. That’s true. However, the last time we saw an initial report of 5.8 percent growth combined with rising unemployment is much more recent: the first quarter of 2002. The quarter’s growth was later revised down, but at the time there was much unwarranted celebration (unemployment didn’t peak until summer 2003).
So here comes the blip. Curb your enthusiasm.]
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/blip/
I have no confidence that the US economy is gonna do anything except slowly stagger out of its current mess.
briefly @ # 60
[You claim to be economically responsible…….but really you don’t want to have to say a harmless and poverty-stricken old woman should be thrown out of the country. You would just rather she made no claims on the public conscience or the budget and faded away in obscure penury. This is not about money: it is about your inability to deal with the personal and the human.
As for being a bigot, try to improve. It may not be too late, even for you.]
I think Troothy should listen very carefully to the words of this song if he wishes to be taken seriously here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTAMnK3p0Gg
Obama is picking the right fight here, if he can stick his guns.
[Paul Volcker, legendary central banker turned radical reformer of our financial system, has won an important round. The WSJ is now reporting:
President Barack Obama on Thursday is expected to propose new limits on the size and risk taken by the country’s biggest banks, marking the administration’s latest assault on Wall Street in what could mark a return — at least in spirit — to some of the curbs on finance put in place during the Great Depression.]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-johnson/paul-volcker-prevails_b_430869.html
Senator Milne said.
“We propose to move immediately with an interim low carbon price. We can then discuss the longer-term solutions Australia will need over the coming two years, secure in the knowledge that a carbon price is already in place, helping to unleash innovative and job-creating climate solutions.”
which is EXACTLY what an ETS does , but MUCH better , because there is also both a cap target and trade
Senator Milne is a fool seeming unknowing of what an ETS is !
is
on her OWN Milne argument , there is now no sensible CC reason now for th Greens not to vote for rudds 5% ETS
[Paul Volcker, legendary central banker turned radical reformer of our financial system, has won an important round. The WSJ is now reporting:
President Barack Obama on Thursday is expected to propose new limits on the size and risk taken by the country’s biggest banks, marking the administration’s latest assault on Wall Street in what could mark a return — at least in spirit — to some of the curbs on finance put in place during the Great Depression.]
It’s about efffing time that Obama shows some steel and really implements “the change we had to have”, rather than being a celebrity POTUS. If Obama is to going down in one term, he should go down in fighting.
It’s no secret that i am a Hillary supporter, but if Obama shows his steel, he is Da Man for me.
#57 – Truthy
[ These are the sort of cases where the bleeding hearts should be opening up their wallets and putting their money where their mouths are. ]
Well actually many do open up their wallets, a cup of coffee here, a small gift there, business houses like restaurants who provide some take-away meals. That is all very ad hoc. Despite your misunderstanding of “latte sipping inner city types”, we actually do care – something that apparently people in regional Australia don’t. Despite the vastness of the inner city, it seems we really are the “city of villages”, – and the village atmosphere has been ripped out of the heart of regional Australia. You are expecting this lady to live out her later years dependent on her seeking out the charity of her fellow village residents. You probably don’t know what dignity is, let alone understand what effect a loss of it may have on people.I suppose you can’t see that this woman could be your own grandmother – and see her as merely an economic unit which is nearing the end of its productive life. Sure we throw machines onto the scrap-heap (the council tip) when they are old, but should we treat people in the same way.
Truthy, are you concerned if the government treats this woman humanely, it will open up the floodgates for other people to do the same thing – until we are so over-burdened by such people that Australia collapses in a heap?
Cue for Bruce Hawker:-
[ Meanwhile, the Uniting Church minister at Bondi’s Chapel by the Sea, John Queripel, has defended his decision to host an exhibition of the Aboriginal artist Gordon Syron’s latest work, including his controversial portrait of the Premier, Kristina Keneally, surrounded by Ku Klux Klan figures, and offered the artist his full support. ”We are not only honoured but feel we need to hang the work,” Queripel told The Diary. ”Clearly Gordon does not believe the Premier is a member of the Ku Klux Klan. However, what he is asserting is that the policies she and others have carried out with Aboriginal people have had that same effect, an effect he judges to be rooted in a deep racism.” Syron has battled Keneally, who is also the Minister for Redfern-Waterloo, over the authorities’ attempts to evict him from a government-owned railway shed in Redfern which houses an extensive collection of urban Aboriginal art. Syron wants the Government to buy the collection so it can be stored appropriately. ]
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/moves-afoot-to-frame-ferguson-20100121-moao.html
As predicted there is no mention of this Morgan Poll in the ABC2 breakfast news show.
methinks Mr Morgan has planned a long weekend and got the work out of the way early on Thursday
I don’t have a problem with Turnbull taking a shot at state politics – it just means he will do less harm if he is elected 🙂
There’s no way his focus will change though, his ego and his pet projects (ie the republick) require a spot on the federal stage
ALP? Lib? Green? Even Nat?
Y’ll love this! By George Monbiot
Winner of climate change denial’s premier award revealed John Tomlinson, the Michigan Mauler, wins the one and only Christopher Booker prize for falsehoods about global warming
Lots of links to ever bigger loads of Denier crap.
And WOW! PBers! The Bolta didn’t even rate a Dishonourable Mention in this company!
By The Guardian’s George Monbiot – as if you couldn’t guess!
[As predicted there is no mention of this Morgan Poll in the ABC2 breakfast news show]
Yes, it was about as likely to be reported as the next Newspoll, should it go up by 2% again
The plot thickens:
[http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/interim-carbon-price-preferable-to-time-wasting-political-stunt/story-e6frg6zo-1225822296729]
A twee reference to reducing industry assistance to ‘Garnaut’s recommended levels’ but again, the emphatic rejection of any industry assistance touted in the media conference curiously absent.
It seems the Greens are keeping the small print very small, and my concern is so they can pretend (when the Government negotiations fail as a result) that the talks broke down for other reasons.
Daniel B
Thanks for that, very funny!
This is more for the Vics, particularly those of you with Facebook:
The FILL Party (Fairness in Liquor Licensing)
Recently a couple of major band pubs in Melbourne (the Tote in Collingwood and the Arthouse in North Melbourne) have shut, partly due to licensing regulations which have gotten a lot tougher over the years (and in Melbourne as in Perth, target small to medium sized music venues rather than the huge beer barn nightclubs). In the web 2.0 way, these fellas reckon they’re gonna get a single issue party together just to fight this. Melbourne’s got more music fans than most places (they oughta, half the ones here dream of moving to the place), so it just may have legs. Realistically, probably another 2% of the vote various Labor candidates can’t afford to be losing in marginal seats, which would be part of the reason Richard Wynne (member for Richmond, also a govt minister) is supporting the Tote.
#57 Truthy
[ The moneys gotta come from somewhere fellas. ]
Agreed. And the money necessary to house and provide medical care for this 80 year old woman can easily be accessed, without costing taxpayers 1 extra cent.
Both Howard and now Rudd maintain expensive media monitoring units, swags of PR people etc, all of which is essentially designed to ensure their relection – and all paid for by the taxpayer. Just reduce the expenditure on “spin” by say $50,000 per year (probably considring less) and bingo – job’s done without any extra cost to taxpayers.
Now Truthy, what’s your objection to acting humanely towards this woman. Remember she is of European descent, although I am sure the colour of her skin would not concern you, but just mentioning it in case you had skipped over that information previously.
The Greens v Labor thing has become so tiresome, I dont visit here as much as I used to. How about Libs v Labor. Its not as if Abbott is not giving us plenty to talk about
Ron
[Change over nite , and to a lower positon that Rudds 5% (nil) ]
You’ve got maths in it again so it is wRONg. You just don’t get anything that involves numbers. This will reduce GHG by 2% in two years.
The ETS would have only been operating for 1 year at that stage and GHG would still be INCREASING by 2012 when this interim measure finishes.
And Ron, you can criticise a policy that you support. I know that for you everything is black (Libs, Greens) and white (Labor) but some people are not so Manichean.
Ratsars
As I’ve said before, if you could get your facts right I won’t criticise your posts. But if you post rubbish because you don’t understand something I’m going to point out your error. And your preachy tone particularly irritates me.
Musrum @ # 37
Thanks for the tip
The Heysen Molotov @ # 42
The only thing i learned as a result of this experience was that you cannot reason with Jerks.
You know what they say. Never argue with idiots are drunks. To understand a drunk you need to get legless yourself while an idiot will always win the argument by dragging you down to their level.
[Agreed. And the money necessary to house and provide medical care for this 80 year old woman can easily be accessed, without costing taxpayers 1 extra cent.]
I hate to offer any kind of comment that could be taken as agreement with HurtsThe Truth, but …. should a non Australian citizen be given public housing, which by ddefinition would deprive an Australian citizen from that public housing? It must needs be so because there is a massively long queue and not enough of it to go around.
Ratsars
Just to keep you happy. And remember the interim scheme is proposed to start in 7/10 and end in 7/12.
[Senator Milne says a temporary scheme would cut emissions by about 2 per cent and give political parties time to negotiate long-term targets.]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/21/2797559.htm?section=justin
Regarding the Morgan poll, I said after the last Newspoll one there was no indication of any change beyond MOE, and I’d say the same about this one. With everyone on holidays, it would be unrealistic for anyone other than us tragics (sorry OPT 🙂 ) to even bother following politics at present. I’d say overall the real figure is still about 54/46, maybe 55/45 2PP to Labor.
Andrew@79:
[The Greens v Labor thing has become so tiresome, I dont visit here as much as I used to. How about Libs v Labor. Its not as if Abbott is not giving us plenty to talk about]
Every now and again someone who contributes nothing to the discussion comes on and talks garbage like that.
Get it through your thick head, we don’t care when or how often you visit, it is a matter of supreme indifference to me, at least, and, I suspect, most other regular posters.
I await your erudite and thought provoking contribution to the discussion, on any subject of your choice.
[Now this most likely will kill any export industry that I suspect would just move to another country.]
Ratstar, you repeat this mantra without any evidence.
How would the power costs from the proposed $20 per tonne carbon tax compare with recent and foreshadowed power cost increases independent of a CPRS or carbon tax? How many companies have r have threatened to relocate offshore as a result of the non-carbon energy cost increases? How may companies have previously threatened to relocate but not done so?
I’m really going to laugh if Rudd ends up supporting the Greens-Garnaut scheme on some form. It would be like uncoupling the RET and CPRS again, which I recall would be the end of civilisation as we knew it and killing a Siamese baby when the Greens proposed it. And then Labor supported it.
[KEVIN Rudd has indicated the Government may swing its hopes to the Greens to get an emissions trading scheme through, now that the Opposition has switched to Tony Abbott’s hardline climate change policy.
In Adelaide yesterday, the Prime Minister said he would look at a proposed compromise plan put up by the Greens for a partial emissions trading scheme to begin on July 1.
“It has only just been released, I haven’t had an opportunity to examine it,” he said. ]
Rudd might couple Greens support for his post-election CPRS to him supporting the interim carbon tax and leave the Libs out in the cold.
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26618004-5006301,00.html
Turnbull as Premier might be NSW Labor’s best prospect of a return to power sooner rather than very later he wouldn’t handle the bread and butter grumbles of state politics well.
Nick Martin is the grandson of Clarrie Martin NSW Labor MP and minister from the 1930s to the 1950s who left some very interesting diaries.
Ron @ # 61
The way I see it Ron is that we all learn something from everyone even those who we disagree with. I find it rathe condescending when someone tries to take away from one the right to make his or her own decision because it does not tally with theirs.
We are all entitled to come to a position on everything in a way that suits us and I don’t think anyone has the right to criticise one on how one does it.
In respect to climate change and the ETS I am of the view that most likely the target range set by the Government is not enough in the long run. However we must recognise that it is the long run. As I have pointed out a number of times that though the science is an important part and when we get to the end game it is the major driver that when starting out there are many other issues that must be taken into account and quite frankly if these other issues are not recognised and addressed there is a good chance it will never get off the ground at all.
Accordingly I find the actions of the Greens destructive and though there hearts may be in the right place there actions seem to head no where but straight over the cliff of failure.
I thought the Greens announcement was pragmatic and constructive; one of their most sensible decisions in recent times. The Labor scheme minus dubious coal plant compensation would be an improvement. Rudd would look cynical about CC if he did not at least discuss this. Abbott will oppose it and it still may not get Fielding and Xenephon’s votes in the Senate, but at least that fact would be highlighted to the electorate pre-election. I don’t see how Labor will lose from it.
There are also many advantages to establishing a carbon price, even if it is below the level that would be needed to “bite” on brown coal ($30/tonne or more). A carbon trading scheme could be established. Practices very wasteful in emissions would start to be discouraged. It would raise tax revenue. Plus if we don’t, it will jsut give a free kick to oil companies as teh world ecomy recovers. Fuel prices will just start rising back up to $100/bbl to “fill the gap”. We might as well take the difference as revenue.
Many businesses will also be pleased, and not just solar cell manufacturers. I am aware through work of several forward thinking companies who spent millions on investments that would ensure them carbon credits on the assumption that an ETS would be in force by now. They are not too pleased that the money might be wasted.
Ratsars 54
[Now this most likely will kill any export industry that I suspect would just move to another country. Those that cant move like Power Producers will just hit the poor consumer who according to the Greens press release will be compensated. This means that we have money going around and around but really no change in our GHG except for those firms that move overseas.]
I understand your concerns but don’t agree. Carbon taxes aren’t usually put on export goods anyway. Coal exports would be unaffected. The impact of a larger carbon price on retail electricity prices via an ETS was small. The real impact is on large electricity consumers like the aluminium industry, which is exactly where it should be.
PY
Why are you giving oxygen to the TROLL. As we have observed this TROLL thinks he speaks for the silent majority when the opinion polls state otherwise.
Please dont expect humane rational from the troll. Your just pissing against the wind!
The U.S economy is now in meltdown.
This can’t be good for Obama…. afterall as the saying goes “it’s the economy stupid!”.
Unemployment over 10% now and thinks not looking much better. Looks like the Yanks may be having second thoughts about voting him in for a second term.
[The Greens v Labor thing has become so tiresome, I dont visit here as much as I used to. How about Libs v Labor. Its not as if Abbott is not giving us plenty to talk about]
[Every now and again someone who contributes nothing to the discussion comes on and talks garbage like that.
Get it through your thick head, we don’t care when or how often you visit, it is a matter of supreme indifference to me, at least, and, I suspect, most other regular posters.
I await your erudite and thought provoking contribution to the discussion, on any subject of your choice.]
Sixty-nine words to attack someone who posted 37 words.
Seems a disproportionate response for someone who claims to not care.
I happen to agree with what Andrew said, and even if I didn’t, would still entirely support his right to contribute in any way he sees fit, except if he was being abusive or breaking the rules in any other way.
No one’s forcing you to come here or read anything on PB, much less respond disproportionately and aggressively to it. No one, to my knowledge, has made you an arbiter of what others may and may not post. Ever heard of the ‘scroll’ button?
They are the forgotten men. They can be found in beige chinos at any Australian golf course, with their feet shoulder width apart, boring anyone who’ll suffer them with stories about their Saab.
(Thirty eight words, including these.)
Diogenes @ # 80 & 84
”As I’ve said before, if you could get your facts right I won’t criticise your posts. But if you post rubbish because you don’t understand something I’m going to point out your error. And your preachy tone particularly irritates me.
I would appreciate you being more specific in you assertion that my fact were wrong. I relied on your references and if accordingly my post was incorrect so must yours have been.
As well I would appreciate you highlighting what I don’t understand for at the moment I feel that I understand what the Green are not doing quite well.
The interesting part is that the policy document on Greens web site makes no mention of this fact concerning the so-called 2% reduction. This must throw such a claim into great doubt. It is also worth noting that the Greens make no effort to try and explain how their plan will actually reduce GHG. I also notice that they produce very little to validate their claims.
I am glad that you have taken such interest in my stye of writing and your assertion that my tone is “preachy”. Some how I don’t think that one appropriate quote (i.e. “physician heal thyself” is enough to classify my posts in this way.
TTH – No boats eh? So its over to the US for a bit of Obama bashing.
[TTH – No boats eh? So its over to the US for a bit of Obama bashing.]
Shutup, it’s the monsoon season.
And besides it’s not Obama bashing… it’s credible criticism of a failed leader.
Apparently Annette Ellis is going to announce her retirement as well – James Mossalla of the Can Times has said it’ll happen at 11:30am.