Morgan has released another poll just five days after the last, from a face-to-face survey of 1067 voters conducted last weekend. The agency’s figures had previously been holding out in the pre-budget Rudd honeymoon zone, but they have now come down to earth with a drop from 60-40 to 55-45. This has partly been driven by a drop in the Greens vote to 7.5 per cent from an anomalous 11.5 per cent last time.
Senator Abetz urged the Government to wait for a comprehensive international program of emissions reduction that would include big polluters such as India and China.
“If we put a price on carbon, it should be zero or very low until such time as the major emitters and our competitors are in the same ballpark, otherwise the environmental outcomes will be worse,” he said.
Senator Abetz is very lucky the punters do not realize how econamicaly stupid that statement is , as well as being environmental stupid
Jen 352 Says:
July 27th, 2008 at 8:57 pm “Ron-what do you think of the POST-Kyoto ratifications?”
What “POST-Kyoto ratifications” ar you referring to ?
gusface @ 395
Laugh!
Thats pretty funny and reminded me of something that happened years ago when I was working as a Comp Tech. This customer came in with this comp they had just bought from Cash Converters a few days earlier, they had spent a few days with it but couldn’t get “it to do anything”… All it had was this flashing “c” on the screen, lol… After much, much pain explaining that without getting windows (was win95 from memory) the best they could really hope for was to type “time” “tree” etc I sold them the copy of Win95. Whislt installing it for them I was explaining that they should get some anti-virus software as well among other things, the husband jumps up and says, “nope, no way, I don’t believe in computer virus’s, theres no oxygen inside the circuits, it’s impossible for them to survive!!!
I gave em a share copy of “gopher hunt” and just GTF outa there 🙂
gusface Says: @ 397,
{maybe they are hoping for more rivers of gold from the party of doublespeak.}
Gus, the thought occurred to me a while back that maybe the reason why the MSM are so blindsided on the multiple shortcomings of the Libs and appear so determined to undermine Rudd Labor’s agenda of reform, is that they are hoping to spook Rudd into engaging in a similar media campaign to the ongoing misuse of taxpayers money engaged in by Howard for 11 & a half years.
I hope he resists and continues on with his program of reform and rejects any thoughts of reverting back to the corrupt manipulation of public opinion of the rodent which was developed into an art form under Howard. The MSM have suckled on the public teat for survival for far too long as it is.
It’s about time they got by on the marits of the product that they present to the general public. Not constant spin propping up an incompetent but financially generous Government or ex- Government.
“merits”.
gusface @ 379 –
I haven’t been able to find a solar radiation map for the Sahara, but as most of it is further from Equator than the area of Australia that has the highest, most consistent solar radiation (lime green bit in this BoM map) the Sahara would have slightly less energy falling on it.
The dark green areas have more radiation in the dry months but this drops off during the wet. However, that is also the case for our northern neighbours which presents us with a great opportunity by doing what is proposed by the EU. We could just as easily build a chain of solar farms across our north and export the power to Indonesia, PNG, the Philippines and possibly even Singapore and Malaysia. They could also provide employment for remote Aboriginal communities which might go a long way to easing their social problems.
$71 billion spread over 20+ years is peanuts. All it takes is imagination and the will. Sadly, the Opposition clearly has neither, and I’m not sure about Rudd or Australian business. 🙁
It’s hard to believe, considering the verbal diarrhea that Milne has dished up in the last 18 Months or so but, this is a reasonably accurate and balanced report on the current and evolving Climate Change policy especially in regard to the Libs.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24086175-33435,00.html
Mayo
also this co from canada has just released this technology
“SHEC LABS has developed solar concentrator and complementary solar receiver technology that is able to concentrate sunlight to a very high level. Sunlight has been concentrated up to 5,000 times the intensity of the sun and in commercial scale systems could be high as 11,000 to 16,000 times the intensity of the sun. This immense solar concentration creates high heat at the focal point that approach the surface temperature of the sun at 6,000 °C (11,000 °F). Metal placed at the focus is instantly melted.”
http://www.shec-labs.com/press_releases/2008-07-14.php
Scorpio
Apparently as part of the charter of responsible gvt all gvt advertising will have to be vetted and approved by the DEPT not the MINISTER
also i think an independent body was mooted by bob brown-maybe he will do a deal to get some enabling legislation thru the senate .
ron- the discussions at the G8 summit re post 2012.
Milne seems to less enamoured with the Liberal brand than other conservative commentators.
Gusface
presume the high voltage DC transmission lines that would carry the MW through PV or solar thermal concentration , could be econamicaly & logistically be constructed in the oceans north of ‘oz’ to get th export potential MayoFeral mentiond in #406 ?
(had in mind the mediterran from Afrca to Europe land mass is less width , shallower & more stable 7 not aware of engineering needed)
I thought Milne was scathing of Nelson and Turnbull on “Insiders” too. However it has to be put in context. Milne is a Costello supporter.
Diogenes @ 399 –
New figures (from the alcohol lobby) showed it had increased spirit sales (which is not necessarily consumption) by 10%.
You’ve almost certainly hit the nail with your qualifier about sales -v- consumption. I don’t drink but have noticed that the supermarkets increased their spirit pricing from $50 to $60 per 2 bottles in the last 6-9 months so it’s very likely most of that 10% is due to price increases.
The SMH’s article on this says:
But a Herald analysis of industry sales figures over the year to June found a decrease in the overall consumption of alcohol on a year-ended basis.
And that:
The Herald figures show that compared with June last year sales of ready-to-drink beverages measured in standard drinks have fallen 42 per cent. But the rise in sales of full-strength spirits was only 24 per cent, leaving a fall in the overall number of standard drinks sold of 8.5 per cent over the year.
In other words this is just another media beat-up. How unsurprising!
Nelson won’t get off scot free with his approach regarding the ETS. The Libs are taking a real chance of being labelled and perceived as weak and indecisive.
Michelle Grattan – “In a further blow to Dr Nelson, the electricity industry has accused the Opposition of potentially putting the country’s energy supply at risk if it fails to give investors certainty by nominating a date by which it would start emissions trading.”
http://www.theage.com.au/national/nelson-faces-dissent-on-emissions-policy-20080727-3lqj.html
{Apparently as part of the charter of responsible gvt all gvt advertising will have to be vetted and approved by the DEPT not the MINISTER}
Gus, I am hoping that Labor sticks with that and also the reform of the “freedom of Information” Legislation they promised.
The changes you mentioned must have given the MSM no end of sleepless nights after the gravy train they have been riding for the past decade.
The opportunities presented to the media by the new FoI amendments seem to have gone un-noticed. The ability to do proper investigatory journalism once these amendments are in place is a golden opportunity for the MSM to regain some relevancy rather than just falling back on media releases and political spin by politicians.
Or just making it up as they go.
“Labor insiders say”, “a Liberal Party Official was reported as saying”,
“people think”, adnausium.
Jen 409 Says:
July 28th, 2008 at 11:39 am
“ron- the discussions at the G8 summit re post 2012.”
Part of the G8 Summitt was a CC discusion called the “G8 plus 5” (the other 5 big poluters China India Brazil Mexico South Africca
They all agreed CO2 emmission need to be cut by 50% buy 2050 !!!! Kyoto agreed to that 10 years ago and now says min 80% (as does Bob Brown) This “G8 plus 5” agreement is a con on us all
This G8 +5 (‘GED’) is what both McCain and Obama want as th forum to future negotiate CC , ie. OUTSIDE of Kyoto China & India want to get OUT of Tyoto , and the US does NOT want to get IN to Kyoto (all selfishly) This new forum competing to Kyoto is the mechanism Its all dirty selfish world politcs
If you read my IPPCC scientists scenarios quoted in #389 , the Kyoto signatories are obligated to set emmission targets to meet at least one of th 6 climate scenarios , and obviously th US & its politcans want a lower emmssions target than that They do not want to pay th econamic price we & th EU ar preapred to pay Neither is China & India IF they can get out of Kyoto , and the Yanks ar showing them th door out , a competing Kyoto forum with 50% reductions by 2050
The bigggest blame belongs to th most selfish , the US They ar th ONLY ones in Kyoto , and they ar doing the ‘spoiling’ …successfully , with “there” alternitive , with th resyt of th G8 forsed to follow like teddy bears to the muscle of US power
They ar th ONLY ones NOT in Kyoto
OK – thanks ron.
Jen
I presented the reasons for the greedy big 4 wanting not to ratify Kyoto (the US) and wanting to get out of Kyoto (China & India , probabley Russia also)
There object is to avoid the Scientists scenarios , there motives (econamic selfish greed)
Th reverse argument is Kyoto is made up of 182 countries who’ve ratifyied Kyoto and one the US who hasn’t (Kazistan will this year)
Therefore 182 Countries happily signed Kyoto mark 1 with emmissions targets (with China India russia free first round passes)
EVERYONE in the world is happy to have Kyoto mark 11 under Kyoto Sceintists scenarios EXCEPT guess who , the US who does not want to come in , and the three bad emmiters China India & Russia who want to get out
.
(th remaining 6 of th G8 ar supporters of Kyoto)
Ron- I do appreciate your explanations and I also understand your concerns.
My own understanding of the detail is pretty limited so I am trying to read up on the various positons and policies re: CC and howto best manange it.
left of field gossip
apparently talcum and afew others are having drinkies and nibbles with the hoi polloi around the traps this week.
both as focus group feedback and also a bit of fleshpressing and horsetrading methinks
results later 🙂
ps its invite only
(and their was me ready to do a tootsie-but mrs g wasnt impressed)
The best line ever delivered by a climate change expert a Professor nonetheless.
Professor Barry Brook heads Adelaide University’s research institute for climate change and sustainability, “Climate scientists don’t use temperature charts to “prove” global warming.
They use the scientific principles of physics, chemistry, geology, biology, and so on, to form ideas and to make predictions. Then they go out and test them.”
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/vvvv/desc/#commentsmore
JOH
time to get off the fense Do you believe Bolt & a few quacks you deny the earth is warming from human activity of CO2 OR do you believe
th 2007 latest Kyoto based full IPCC Report (called the Fourth Asessment) which includes the input of more than 1,200 of the world’s top scientific authors and 2,500 scientific expert reviewers from more than 130 countries , which gives only 6 possible climate scenarios , ALL INCREASES , with 5 of the 6 scenarios between 2.4 increase and 4 degrees and the other a 1.8 increase
JOH , I meant to add , seeing Bolt won’t tell you , why I segegrated 5 scenarios at 2.4 or higher thats because between 2 and 3 degres the CC is irresverisble NO 2nd chanses for th world Await your answer
just posted this in reply to JoM
“hey andy
when the CC happens
you and all the deniers can huddle around your bum
I mean the sunshines out of it
well doesnt it?”
wonder if it will make it. 🙂
Ron it is not irresverisble! Why are then China and India prepared to damn the world by not doing anything about alleged CC?
Why haven’t any of the predictions come true? Where is aramgeddon?
John of Melbourne
#425
Please do avoid my simple queston i asked in #425 , with another queston
I await your answer , then i’ll be happy to answer your queston & will do so properley
typo KOH ,
Please do NOT avoid my simple queston i asked in #425 , with another queston
I await your answer , then i’ll be happy to answer your queston & will do so properley
Ron I do not believe cabon dioxide by itself is soley responsible for global warming. I fail to see a causal relationship with man made carbon dioxide emissions and climate change; as noted by Bolt although our emissions keep increasing the climate has not gotten warmer.
JOH
still did not answer my #425 You simply brought up man to CO2 is not a causel realionship to CC
That is not the same as my question do you believe all scientists in #431
patiuent am i , I will addres your separate point of the relationship man , CO2 and temperature increase
1,200 of the world’s top scientific authors and 2,500 scientific expert reviewers from more than 130 countries state ” it is “very likely” that emissions of heat-trapping gases from human activities have caused “most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century.”
.
(IF yoiu want to know what ‘very likely’ is its a scientyific term = to 90% PLUS chance For a layman without that responsibility its =100%)
So i’ve answered your causel argument doubt , do you beleve the above 3,700 worldss best sciientists conclusion ?
Ron how many ways do I have to say no?
Ron I to am a scientist an engineer infact. Throughout my schooling and my time as an engineer I have never heard, seen nor read that the term, “very likely” can be expressed quantitatively therefore can you please explain to me how you came up with the the figure of 90% to explain the term very likely?
JoM @ 431 –
although our emissions keep increasing the climate has not gotten warmer
So the fact the 8 warmest years on record have occurred in the last 10 years, that glaciers are disappearing for the first time in recorded human history and beginning after the start of the industrial revolution, that the North Pole is expected to be ,a href=”http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jun/27/north-pole-may-be-ice-free-september/”>ice free in September for only the second time in 50+ million years (the first was, briefly, in 2000) are just figments of imagination or coincidence?
Take 2
JoM @ 431 –
although our emissions keep increasing the climate has not gotten warmer
So the fact the 8 warmest years on record have occurred in the last 10 years, that glaciers are disappearing for the first time in recorded human history and beginning after the start of the industrial revolution, that the North Pole is expected to be ice free in September for only the second time in 50+ million years (the first was, briefly, in 2000) are just figments of imagination or coincidence?
JOH
“Ron how many ways do I have to say no?”
Well once would do JOH I asked you for an answer to #425 yes or no , BUT You did not answer I asked you a different queastion in #432 yes or no , BUT You did not answer
so its no use getting upset bacause an ilerate person like me (who read th IPPCC Reports) asks you a queston you ar uncomfortable in answering
JOH “Ron how many ways do I have to say no” Is not an answer either If you want to say “no #425” AND “no #432” justt simply do so I await your answer ??
.
.
“Ron I to am a scientist an engineer infact Throughout my schooling and my time as an engineer I have never heard, seen nor read that the term, “very likely” can be expressed quantitatively”
Well why do you not read the IPPCC Report done by 3,700 of th Worlds top scientists because they use th term , in fact the term ‘very likely’ is used repeatedly Other times ‘likely’ is used , other times “more likely than not’ is used When the IPCC ascribes a likelihood to a scientific finding, the term used reflects a specific range of certainty as defined by a chart with “very likey” defined as 90% PLUS chance
Await your clarification
If CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing at 2ppm annually, and CO2 is the agent which is responsible for locking in the earth’s heat, then surely any measures to halt the rise, whatever the cause, is vital to the survival of life on earth.
433
John of Melbourne
avoids answering Ron’s question
Is apparently ignorant of probability and confidence levels
bah
So JOM, do you need 100% proof before you think we do anything?
none so blind…
Jovial Monk @ 438
Ditto
Diog @ 322
Has anyone discussed how they plan to keep the RAH operating as a hospital, whilst removing all of the asbestos – (particularly in the sections built in the late 50’s and 60’s)?
These days the views of creationsist are ignored. No one even bothers to diss them. So why are some of you trying to bother talking with global warming skeptics? Don’t waste your breath, they are dinosaurs! (Dinosaurs didn’t die in Noah’s flood by the way).
Dinosaurs didn’t die in Noah’s flood by the way
No, they never existed, the Deity just spread some big bones about to fool us. Everyone knows that 😉
“very likey” defined as 90% PLUS chance. Are the skeptics saying they have 100% proof CC is BS or are they saying more than likely or very likely it is? In which case JOH’s objection to “very likely” applies to his anti CC argument as well.
In other news. News Ltd are sh1tt1ng themselves. The propaganda will soon start in full force. The players should not let themselves be duped.
Apparently, from what I have been told (I am not a lawyer), league contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. They are all constructed around a salary cap, which is a restraint of trade, and therefore all contracts are unconstitutional.
I have never believed in the saying “what goes around comes around” but we have had a GST and now an ETS, the wedge on Tampa and now a wedge on CC, and now a superleague on superleague. Oh yeah!
445- And they are talking about arresting the player. When was the last time someone was arrested for failing to deliver a civil contract? I know a lot of builders who would be in deeper doo doo than Sonny Bill then. It’s a civil matter and that is where it is likely to stay. (You can be arrested for breaking a court order in a civil matter however, but I still can’t see an extridiction happening to get a guy to play football).
Grace
There are architects plans which allow for the asbestos. I think most is in the East Wing which is not going to be altered.
Yes Fairman, the propaganda has just started LOL. Apparently other players are being targeted?
This is a non-Newspoll week, right?
“Liquor industry accused of distorting alcohol figures”.
“Earlier today the Distilled Spirits Industry Council (DSIC) said new data showed an increase in the volume of alcohol sold since the introduction of the so-called alcopops tax and urged the Government to reconsider it.
It says sales of pre-mixed drinks are down 30 per cent, but sales of full-strength bottles of spirits are up 46 per cent from April to June.
However, tax office figures released this afternoon by the Government show sales of pre-mixed drinks have gone down by 54 per cent, with total sales of all spirits down by 23 per cent.”
Now who to believe? 😛