Forty-second parliament: open thread

Those wishing to discuss Australian politics are invited to do so here rather than here.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

701 comments on “Forty-second parliament: open thread”

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  1. Good to see Glen offering himself up as the piñata du jour (to mix languages!) yet again.

    Why anyone bothers batting this stuffed toy around has me beat, but maybe it’s just for fun!

    Don’t expect any great ideas or wonderfully expressed sentiments to come tumbling out however. Empty, vacous, are two words that come to mind.

  2. Generic P @ 528 & Ron @ 531

    Ron is correct GP, I didn’t call the Libs racist. No need, when their actions say it all. I was just putting their sorry day antics into the party’s past and present idealogical context.
    Thanks for taking it up Ron – had gone to bed by then.

  3. 550

    Yeah, like I said yesterday Andrew, Horatio Hornet is suddenly keen to have the ‘symbolism’ of just two people making an apology to him for the great slight of not looking at him!

    But just a few weeks ago he wasn’t going to say sorry to tens of thousands of people whose lives were severely effected by long standing abuses.

    Suddenly, ‘symbolism’ matters to Lord Horatio Hornet, Admiral of the Sinking Ship of Fools.

  4. G’day all,

    I just got to say that in my opinion Julia Gillard has got a gutter mouth when it comes to IR. I dislike it when she sayd the Coalition is SPITTING in the peoples faces, etc. I thought that sort of language went with Keeting.

  5. As KR correctly points out, do bloggers here really expect Glen to come up with intelligent arguments?? Have you not been reading his posts over the past year?? Dont think it’s worth getting heated up about.

    I do think its a shame that both here and at OzForums there is a shortage of intelligent conservative bloggers. Would be good to have more constructive debate

  6. John of Melbourne, my heart bleeds for you, Your poor sensitive Tory ears. There is no greater joy than the bleeting of the tories in defeat…

  7. 558
    John of Melbourne

    And the Deputy Opposition leader, during her point of order, which directly preceded this, on several occasions referred to the Deputy Prime Minister, as ‘she’!


    I was surprised the Speaker didn’t slap her hard, but then again, showing no class is hardly surprising for Julie Bishop, is it?

    What a slapper!

  8. Lol, thanks Andrew 🙂

    I think the majority of people hate that sort of language and that Gillard is doing herself a dis-service by talking that way. Surely as a lawyer she is more elloquent then that?

  9. 558 [I dislike it when she sayd the Coalition is SPITTING in the peoples faces, etc.]

    JOM and I disliked everything the coalition claimed about IR. You’ve got a decade or so to get used to the new language which is no more offensive than the coalition language on IR but cry us a river of crocodile tears by all means.

  10. Fair enough Steve. Maybe not 10 years, going ty the reports in the Australian today about Swan’s performance in Parliament yesterday 3 looks about right 😉

  11. I’m not fussed by Glen or any of the others – I tend to think they provide good examples of what is wrong with the right.
    However, if we don’t challenge their arguments (i) they might think that what they’re saying has the support of the ‘silent majority’ (ii) other, more innocent, bloggers might not understand the fallacious nature of their points.
    I’m blogging for the unseen audience rather than worrying about convincing Glen.
    That said, I’ve always been a great believer in transformation – there ARE people in the world who will change their minds when confronted with arguments they can’t dismiss. To decide that Glen lacks this intellectual capability and refuse to challenge him on this basis would be to do him a great disservice.
    And if he lacks the intellectual capacity to do this, at least he’s been given the opportunity.

  12. I suppose JOM has forgotten the ludicrous term ‘Good economic Manager’ which the coalition used as the lie to cover increasing trade deficits, increasing mortgage interest rates, increasing inflation and general laziness and ineptitude within the coalition government.

  13. 567

    Nice senitments there zoom, but if you’ve followed the litany of lost causes that Glen has espoused over the last year, you’d have to conclude that he’s a pathological case.

    Time and time again, putting up ludicrously silly arguments, (and badly expressed, but hey, that’s just my personal opinion! LOL), trying to defend the utterly indefensible without one iota of acknowledgement that he’s ever wrong about any of it.

    This isn’t a ‘person’, it’s a troll-bot, pre-programmed to be wrong and to never alter any position, no matter what the argument against, or even the result of the popular vote.

    Why bother?

  14. 569 [Interest rates will always be lower undera Coalition government.]

    Can’t wait for those weasel words to come back and bite them in three years time too!

  15. 569
    John of Melbourne Says:
    February 15th, 2008 at 11:32 am
    Interest rates will always be lower undera Coalition government.

    FACT 1/ from the Treasury Department archives:

    the highest interest rates since 1930 were Labor’s Crean’s 20.74% in 1974
    they were the highest worldwide due to the first Oil shock rise

    the SECOND highest interest rates since 1930 were Howards 20.56% in 1982
    there was NO , I repeat no comparable worldwide high interest rates in 1982

    You are entitled to a “value” judgement & by all means do so
    You are not entitled to peddle mis truths of facts

    FACT 2/
    Howard Treasurer in 1982 presided over the worst inflation/unemployment
    figures in over 50 years
    Inflation 11% and unemployment 11%
    this is not a typo error…both figures were 11%

    On any economic measure , Howard is the worst Treasurer in Australian history
    and his claims of a being a “sound economic manager” are factually untrue

    Had you made claims of Costello’s economic prowess then AT LEAST you would have had a valid statistical argument to advance
    (but I reserve my stats on Costello for another day)

  16. And in a moment of supreme irony:
    front page of the Border Mail (next to the advertisemnt for the Sorry rally on Thursday in Wangaratta),

    Sophie Mirrabella annouces that she is pregnant with her first child.

  17. The attacks against Sophie Mirabella are unwarranted, offensive and totally out of order.

    Ms Mirabella is an upstanding member of parliament.

  18. Take off the rose-tinted glasses GP, nobody is calling her names, but people are decrying her (and others) lack of courage in Parliament.

  19. No 581

    She does not let symbols get in the way of facts. Children, white or black, should be removed from families where there is evidence of abuse.

  20. No 580

    Sorry Al, but the leftist definition of “courage” is insufferably arrogant; i.e. only those which agree with your view are courageous. Heaven forbid should there be difference of opinion.

  21. GP, name one person – just one – who says that children (black or white) should NOT be removed when removal is justified.
    The apology was NOT about the removal of children from harmful environments, but the removal of children solely on the basis of race.
    QED – if you were an aboriginal child, removed because you were in a life threatening situation, the apology does not apply to you.

  22. No, GP, the leftist definition of courage is exactly the same as any normal person’s- that is, true courage is standing up for your beliefs.
    Courage is not hiding away and avoiding scrutiny.
    I notice that the courageous Mirabella was uncontactable for nearly 24 hours (her own media officer was unable to say whether she had been absent due to illness or not) and since then has only taken part in one interview (to my knowledge, correct me if I’m wrong) on local ABC radio.
    I’m sure she’ll do numerous speeches to totally sympathetic audiences such as the Young Libs but I doubt she’ll subject herself to any real scrutiny.

  23. No 588

    zoom, everyone says they agree with removing children from abusive family environments, but the practical reality is that political correctness has stopped that from occurring in the case of indigenous peoples. The appauling cases of child abuse in Aboriginal communites is case in point.

    [The apology was NOT about the removal of children from harmful environments, but the removal of children solely on the basis of race.]

    The term “Stolen Generation” is entirely misleading because it doesn’t make the distinction that you just outlined. It assumes that all children were stolen, whether on the basis of race (clearly a despicable practice), or on the basis of harm (noble).

  24. By the way, GP, still haven’t explained why Mirabella is an upstanding member of Parliament, despite my request.
    Surely you’re not basing your assessment of her abilities on one incident?

  25. No 590

    As in the point I made earlier, what you’re effectively advocating is like trying to voice dissent against a strike in a union meeting without a secret ballot.

  26. No 592

    Your petty semantic games are of no value zoom. Regardless of my justification, you and others were never going to accept it.

  27. 591
    GP – evidence, please?

    The term ‘Stolen Generation’ is perfectly clear. The majority of children were removed because of their race.
    It’s like saying that someone was not a victim of the Holocaust because – although they were taken to a concentration camp – they weren’t Jewish.

  28. 594
    I didn’t think whether I accepted it or not was important.
    You have made a statement, you should be able to back it up with evidence.
    If you can’t, then it has no validity.
    I would remind you that Mirabella had the biggest swing against a sitting member in regional Victoria, scarcely an indication that her electorate sees her the way you do.

  29. zoom you have touched on an important aspect of the sorry debate. Many of those I have spoken to believe the issue to be of removing children due to welfare concerns, rather than due to race. Would be good to have an education campaign about this

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