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Author: William Bowe
William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.
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I’ve no problem with your voting Liberal, Glen (takes all sorts). It’s your weak arguments, naff opinions and lack of evidence that I object to.
Silly arguments Glen, for so many reasons that I am sure you know. You are falling into line with your team rather than intellectually dissecting what happened, and analysing the words and aims.
On another note, re the bloggo-discourse – you NERDS!
Apres your arguments appear weak when you fail to provide evidence when criticising other bloggers.
Glen
“alot of people in Australia didnt support it at least they have some representatives in Parliament who are sticking up for their position.”
Name one representative in parliament who stood up for these people Glen, name one, just one, only one.
I did not hear one representative speak against the motion, I did not hear one representative vote against the motion.
I have taped the whole proceeding, there was not one , not one vote, not one voice, not one that spoke against it, not one.
In the words of the greatest Tory of them all, the Iron Lady, Maggie Thatcher, who are these people, name these people.
If they were truly sticking up for their position, they would have turned up in Parliament and voted “Nay”.
As it was, they tried to have it both ways by abstaining from the vote.
Nelson’s speech was inappropriate for the occasion. ‘Abuses like Nelson mentioned’ happen in white society too; the implication of his speech was that they are specifically a problem of Aboriginality.
Further, many of the abuses happening today in Aboriginal society are a direct result of the removal of children.
If you want to be politically correct, Glen – a synonym, in my lexicon, for polite or fair – you would acknowledge that all human societies experience rape, murder, incest and addiction. If we paid as much attention to such crimes in our communities as we do when they occur in Aboriginal settlements, we might conclude that our society is also dysfuntional.
Such abuses are generally the symptoms of poverty, despair and hopelessness but can happen in the ‘best’ of families.
I hope you have evidence that there is more reason to remove children now than there was ‘then’, otherwise your comment is an unworthy slur on a group of Australian parents.
Ah, Pancho, Pancho…
typical name calling resorted to by those who deny the very existence of moderated blogs!!
Confront your own guilt, Pancho; deal with your denial.
Tuckey, Jensen, Mirrabella they were quite vocal though they didnt want any part of the Sorry ceremony. The reason they didn’t speak on the motion was because they day was supposed to be in a bipartisan nature and if people did not support the motion im sure it was better they did not spoil the good spirited nature of the ceremony.
Its just like not having Howard there, having Tuckey and Mirrabella there would have spoilt the ceremony everybody knew there position and none of them wanted to have the Sorry to be just from the Government they obviously thought that it was in the best interests of the Party they not attend so that the motion could of been passed by the whole Parliament.
505
zoom – as far as im aware 16 year old white kids don’t rape and drown 4 year olds…these abuses arent tolerated in white communities and they should not be tolerated in black ones.
Before we worry about housing and education for gods sake we’ve got to stop this going on first for the children’s sake!
Glen
did Nelson allow a conscience vote or did the “machine” order it?
If it was a conchy vote then fair enough that they abstained,but if it was against the party shouldn’t they be expelled
i await your reply with interest
Not in my opinion, gusface they represent communities where people may not agree with the apology and so they’re doing their job. Obviously had they been told to vote either for it or abstain then they were abstaining so as to prevent the apology from becoming partisan which would have benefited no one.
gus, if they expelled dissenters, the ‘coaltion’ ranging from Lord Wentworth to Ironbar would be torn apart within minutes.
Glen, a specimen of poor argument on your part:
Zoom something tells me you’ve never had the same opinion with her so your statement is false.
This means if you follow your logic that if person A disagrees with person B anything that person A says must be false. Very bad logic and very shoddy argument.
Arbie Jay, while Nelson did the right thing in supporting the motion, I believe that he did the wrong thing by his insensitive, crass references to how Aboriginal people have made sacrifices for ‘us’. Aboriginal men hearing what he said about sexual abuse in Indigenous communities felt that once again they were all lumped together as abusers of women and children. His speech needed a lot of work just at a stylistic level — as I said before, leadfooted and graceless.
508 – Little Children are certainly sacred Glen, to borrow a phrase. The 97 recommendations of that report should have been implemented, in consultation with its authors, instead of attempting to play ideology with things like the scrapping of the permit system. Hopefully, the changes to the intervention will deliver actual (rather than political) results.
Tuckey, Jensen, Mirrabella ….. The reason they didn’t speak on the motion was because ….
They are bullies, they are no longer in power and now behave like scared little puppies, yapping at shadows and running away to hide.
And to think that not that long ago you were promoting Sophie as a future leader.
Yap, yap, yap yap yap yap yap yap yapyap yap yap yap yap.
The record shows no voice disented, no voice spoke against the motion Glen.
If there are people in the libs who disagreed with it they should have expressed their disagreement .
You need to find people with the courage of their convictions, people who can stand up and say
“I object”
Happy hunting
Glen
did they abstain
or were they voting against the express orders of the party
which one was it?
ps please no flaming re child abuse.it happens refer zoom 505 and Nelsons co-chairmanship of commission.
Apres Aboriginal people are embarrassed at how bad child abuse is in some communities and they should be covering it up is not going to protect the children if the things that were in the report were happening in white communities they’d be outrage and a royal commission! Nelson told it like it was, we cant just be Sorry for the forced removals we’ve got to be Sorry for letting political correctness stop us from protecting aboriginal children from abuse.
Gusface im not a Parliamentary member of the Liberal Party so i havent the foggiest really.
Pancho the permit system is a farce im glad it was abolished.
Rudd will rollback some of the reforms meant to protect children because of pressure from left wing academics.
Arbie Jay i never said Sophie would be our leader check the archives!
Arbie they have expressed their views, today!
Glen
@516
“if the things that were in the report were happening in white communities they’d be outrage and a royal commission!’
one name many many injustices
hollingworth
this is not the time or the place Glen
please answer
did they abstain
or were they voting against the express orders of the party
which one was it?
Apres
I see what you are saying and why the aboriginals were upset, especially over the type casting, but I felt credit to Nelson where it is due.
It was a momentous achievement by him to get the consensus from his party to support the motion.
In the end what was important was that the apology and the recognition came from the whole parliament, from every single elected representative who was there, not from one political party.
Hollingworth and look at the storm that brewed up you’ve just made my point…
If i dont know whether Nelson told them to vote for the motion i cannot tell you whether they abstained or went against the Party simply as that.
And if Aboriginal leaders removed white children from their families, there would also be a Royal Commission. But that is irrelevant. As is your point.
There was an apology. You just lived through national history, live. It was graciously received. Quibbling about marginalia now is just small minded. The challenges are in the future – we have been given a possible break from the past.
Arbie they have expressed their views, today!
I know Glen, yap yap yap yap yap.
I have a little puppy like that, barks at shadows, now and again I have to go out and give it a little smack with a rolled up sheet of newspaper.
Maybe Jenkins or Nelson should do that with Sophie, Wilson and Jensen.
[If i dont know whether Nelson told them to vote for the motion i cannot tell you whether they abstained or went against the Party simply as that.]
The Liberal hacks abstained because there were TOO GUTLESS to cross the floor and vote against the motion.
They were too gutless to cross the floor during the Howard era, and now they are too gutless to cross the floor in the Nelson era.
They are morally and intellectually bankrupt.
Aboriginal leaders have no jurisdiction to remove white children unless they worked with childrens services Pancho.
Actually it wasnt graciously received yesterday was about the bipartisan support of an Apology from both sides of the House but while one side got cheers for saying Sorry the other side got geers seems but it was a partisan crowd outside Parliament so go figure.
Im more happy with the apology after hearing Nelson’s reply than if Turnbull had made it.
The behaviour of the LNP rump yesterday was consistent with everything else they did in the last decade. They were in government to get what they and their right-wing idealogue close supporters wanted. They were never leaders, just selective manipulators of prejudice in the community, so as to achieve their objective, which is uncomplicated and steeped in history: the Anglo power class must rule.
The post-election problem for the LP was starkly on display yesterday with all the contorted behaviours. One group wants to adapt the party to modern multicultural Australia, but another group just as large wants to continue on with the same outdated battles as exemplified in K Windshuttle’s stuff.
Turnbull must be thanking his lucky stars he didn’t get the last 3 votes.
Arbie@522
“Maybe Jenkins or Nelson should do that with Sophie, Wilson and Jensen.”
what -come around to your place and give the puppy a little smack with a rolled up sheet of newspaper.
beats a game of Pu but you never know who else might show up
🙂
nite all
No 504
It is views like yours, Arbie, that highlight the complete nonsense of the Left.
It’s like trying to voice dissent against a strike in a union meeting without a secret ballot. You simply can’t.
No 525
With respect, what a load of absolute rubbish.
For all the implications that the Liberal Party is racist, that they propagate the notion that “the Anglo power class must rule”, there is a seeming dearth of Aboriginal MPs in the Labor Party. Indeed, it is a white Anglo Australian who is now overseeing Aboriginal Affairs for Rudd. At least Brough had indigenous heritage.
An amazing thing.
Abbott will be in delicious thrall. Despite earlier rejection, the stem cell is alive and approved.
Who would have thought, that a Senate Committee, may have even been revived?
Brought back from the brink of extinction.
That, in any form, it would possibly even survive beyond 24 hours.
That it may even replicate into one, two, three or even more bodies, in all its wondrous being?
That those who reject old notions are ready to embrace a new world.
I stand in awe.
486
Antonio Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
#482 Ron – Why? There was a motion before the house. They were required to vote on it
But they did not vote either for or against the motion…they left the House !
It was a weak decision not to vote as they wanted the best of both worlds
PUBLICLY demonstrated dissent & disrespect but did not vote against the Motion
Frankly Howard made the Honest & right decision…not turn up
So should have they , given the momentous occasion
sorry Antonio for late reply…not been on this thread since
528
Generic Person
You have misrepresented what J/V said at # 525
Your claim J/V impied the Liberal Party is racist is nonsense & disingenuous
J/V specifically spoke about “the behaviour of the LNP rump yesterday”
ie. Tuckey , Jensen , Pearce (plus Howard with them in spirit)
who are & were “just selective manipulators of prejudice in the community”
Which is true…Asian boat people , Dr Haneef , Muslims , Aborigines etc.
and we remember Howards public 1987 campaign speech re race imbalance to get the Pauline hansen support
Howard, a product of the 1950’s pro the queen & rejecting multiculturism was
& did use race as a ‘wedge’ just like many of his other despictable ‘wedges’
Nelson (& the LCP) by his actions on Tuesday has repudiated Howard’s views
typo correction: Pauline Hanson type supporters
(508 @ Glen Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
505
zoom – as far as im aware 16 year old white kids don’t rape and drown 4 year olds…these abuses arent tolerated in white communities and they should not be tolerated in black ones, before we worry about housing and education for gods sake we’ve got to stop this going on first for the children’s sake!)
Glen, I wonder how a James Boldger would respond to your comment that 16 years don’t do bad things.
Glen, earlier in this thread I suggested we spend a lot of time tackling the symptoms rather than the condition, and the removel of childern for they have been raped, is a good example for when I last checked it was a criminal offence to committ rape therefore why are the rapist not arrested, charged and sentanced.
That might mean we need extra police resources but instead of increasing police numbers and getting tough with crime what have both sides of politics done, o dear that’s right crime is good for an election campaign but the voters only want tax cuts and some waffle about union bosses
Doesn’t Glen have fun after we’ve all gone to bed?
For a few hours he gets to be ‘king’ of the blog, posting at will, with only a few sleepless souls continuing the fight against his nonsense.
Like Mirabella et al, he doesn’t contest the battle when he might get shot down in flames but waits until the stage is empty so that he can tell himself that he must be right because so few people boo’d him.
If you’d turned the lights on, Glen, you’d have realised there was nobody out there.
Glen, I grew up in a small country town. Because my grandfather was the local minister, I heard a lot of stories as a child I perhaps shouldn’t have – about the baby girl, product of incest between her grandfather and her mother, who was being sexually abused by her grandfather at 3 months old; a schoolfriend of mine, who was raped with a broken bottle by three girls she thought were her friends; numerous ‘common or garden’ rapes. There was a large aboriginal community in the town (one of the largest in Victoria) but these incidents were amongst the whites.
We have also heard on the news here recently about an intellectually disabled girl set upon by a gang of schoolboys who raped and tortured her, capturing the incident on DVD and selling it within the community.
These things, shocking and indefensible as they are, happen in white communities as well as black. Only those blinded by prejudice would imply (as Nelson did) that this is only an Aboriginal problem.
Recently I googled Apology letters and every one said the same thing for an apology to be giving it must deal directly with what you are apologising for and must focus on the person to whom you are apologising too, it’s best done without adding reasons or excuses for an apology is about recongising how the other person felt and enabling them to see that you see their possible hurt.
516 [we cant just be Sorry for the forced removals we’ve got to be Sorry for letting political correctness stop us from protecting aboriginal children from abuse.]
Hey Glen, beautiful right wing rhetoric but I think you will find that these events preceded ‘Political Correctness’ by a long period of time. Never let facts get in the way of a pat answer though – or you might start to doubt the drivel that you type.
As others have pointed out child abuse knows no boundaries and the best defence against it is to treat others with respect which exactly what political correctness sought to achieve.
There was a wooden horse outside the Coalition’s castle. They thought it was a gift from God. So in their jubilation they pulled the horse inside. Little did they know now they got a Trojan horse in the shape of the participation in the so called “War Cabinet”. Ruddy set a trap for the Nowhere Man and he fell right into it without even looking, now that the Coalition is squabbling over it.
Who’s the racist GP? Actions speak louder than words. And to you I say SORRY!
Having worked in sexual assault services for many years let me reassure you Glen that sexual abuse of children happens in white communtites. As does violence against women by men.
There is no suggestion that this behaviour should be tolerated in any community, and it has nothing to do with the apology for stealing children (not for protection, but in the hope of eradicating “aboriginality”).
A full-page ad will be published tomorrow to denounce our local member’s actions and comments. (Mirrbella announced on ABC radio yesterday that there had never been children stolen from their families.) This ad has been funded by many local people :non-party political, and many of them liberal voters apparently.
She does not represent her constituents, and we are paying her salary to be in the Parliament.
Jen, my sources tell me that there is a “Wangaratta says sorry” march planned for next week. Will keep you posted.
thanks zoom -will be there.
i wonder if sofie was listening to the women interviewd on radio 774 this morning just before the 9 am news
and you jest Finnigans of a Trojan Horse but no you have seen Rudd’s real plot and exposed it.
Imagine as part of reconciliation the Commission endorsing unionism should be expanded to all Australan business’ s
Jen, which paper(s) will carry the full-page ad denouncing the odious Mirabella?
The Border Morning Mail, daily paper published in Albury/Wodonga.
The ad was originally proposed to be half a page, funded by individual donations of $20 – obviously if they’ve gone to a full page the response has been better than expected.
Interestingly, local ABC talkback has run about 5-1 against her actions.
I was wondering who wrote Kevin Rudd’s speech. Seems he did it himself.
On Lateline last night Tony quizzed him about the speech. On Saturday Kevin spoke to (said “listened to”) a member of the stolen generation and on Sunday afternoon he got out his biro.
Nice work.
zoom – you may be right about half page.
Rally in Wangatratta on Thursday 21st Feb, King George Gardens.
Apparently at least one Border Mail reader is no Mirabella sympathizer.
http://bordermail.yourguide.com.au/articles/1183506.html?src=search
“SO Sophie Mirabella did not attend the Sorry Day ceremony in Parliament House.
Perhaps she had a more important task to attend undertake.
Yes Sophie, I understand Canberra can be a very busy place with many other important tasks to attend to.
Like Marie Antoinette, were you arranging the pastries?”
viggoP
and looked what happened to her.
seems nelson is so keen to get an apology from Rudd’s staffers but hasnt seen fit to address those like Mirabella that did not bother attending